Towing with a Bedford

[BusyKiwi]

I went to book a trailer today (to take custom van down to van nats) but the guy at the hire place would only hire me the trailer if I took insurance out with it (only $32) because the tare weight of the van and the fact it doesn't have a chassis ....

So was trying to do some maths but got a bit stuck.
In the bedford books it says kerb weight is about 1222 kg, gvm weight is 2240 kg,

My standard van has the V6 commodore running gears and mags so add about 300 kg, trailer is 800 kg so that would put it over GVM weight, then I found another bit of bedford text saying "total with trailer: 3336 kg" but I'm guessing thats un-braked

The custom van at a guess would be heavier than standard as well, even with the chop and drop, so at a guess maybe 1800kg ? (big heavy cast iron V8 and stuff)
So if the custom van is 1800 + trailer 800 = 2600 kg (2.5 ton) and the tow vehicle about 1500 kg am I asking for trouble?

[obsession]

Yep I think you might be , got many hills cause once you got a bit off speed up your gonna have trouble holding back and then your rear end is gonna want to walk the trailer side ways....

[jesus_is_alright]

GVM is Gross Vehicle Mass, This is only applicable if you put the custom vanin the back of the standard van
Look for the GCM (Gross Combination Mass) and go from there. I can't find my manual at the moment but from some of the documents online i reckon the GCM could be around 3.5tonne

[petrolhead]

Are the trailer brakes electric and do you have a control unit fitted?

[BusyKiwi]

one main hill to worry about (The bombays), going down the hill on the way there is more of a concern than going up it, and going up it is worse on the way back

I'm thinking the "total with trailer: 3336 kg" is the GCM but car makers can't see how a trailer is loaded, if the weight isn't over the front axle ... trailer sway

the trailer brakes are just the standard hydraulic system

[jesus_is_alright]

The towbar will also have a rating of the total weight it can tow and also i think its called the tounge weight, which is how much weight can be put onto the towball.
Ie i remember out quad bike had a towing weight of 300kg and the tongue weight was only 50kg. So if my dad sat in the trailer it'd be ok, but if he stood directly on the towball it would be overloaded

[jesus_is_alright]

Hey Busy, i'm going to spam your post with a whole bunch of replies as im now on a mission to find an exact maximum of what i'm able to tow.
Found this

Maximum Trailer Mass
Throughout Australia, the allowable maximum mass for the trailer is either the capacity of the tow vehicle's towing attachment or the towing limit specified by the vehicle manufacturer for the towing vehicle, whichever is the least.
 
OR
 
If the vehicle's manufacturer has not made a recommendation as to the towing mass, then the following rules apply. A vehicle may tow a laden trailer of up to one and a half times the unladen mass of the tow vehicle, provided that the towbar is rated accordingly and the trailer is fitted with brakes that comply with the requirements stipulated in the Australian Design Rule ADR38.
 
If the trailer is not fitted with brakes, then the maximum mass must not exceed the unladen mass of the motor vehicle. The unladen mass of the vehicle can be found in the vehicles handbook, or check with your dealer. All trailers with a GTM exceeding 750kgs must have brakes.

[jesus_is_alright]

According to the Australian Design Rules, all trailers over 750kgs GTM (irrespective of the towing capacity or unladen mass of the tow vehicle) must have an effective brake system fitted. All brakes must be operable from the driver's seat of the tow vehicle except for over-ride brakes.
 

The minimum braking system required for a trailer or caravan depends on its type and weight, as well as the weight of the tow vehicle:
Up to 750kgs GTM: No brakes are required.
751-2,000kgs GTM: There must be a braking system on the wheels of at least one axle and over-ride brakes are permitted. However, for caravans exceeding 1000kgs, independent brakes (electric brakes are the most common form) are strongly recommended.
Over 2,000kgs GTM: A brake system operating on all wheels is required. The system must be capable of automatically activating should the trailer become detached from the tow vehicle. Under these circumstances the brakes must remain applied for at least 15 minutes. These 'break away' systems are compulsory on all trailers over 2,000kgs GTM.

[jesus_is_alright]

So just quickly, cuz i can't get to my van and check the weights i'd say:
If your tow van weighs 1222, you can only tow 750kg unbraked
or 1222x1.5 = 1833kg with normal override brakes (You might get away with towing 2ton if your van weighs 1333kg or more as 1333x1.5=2000kg)
Anything over 2tonne trailer+load will need electric brakes and cops will probably check this before anything else

And 1 last thing, if your "total with trailer is 3336kg", and tow-van + loaded trailer (1222+ 2000) = 3222, you can only have 114kg in the towvan, practically empty.

[Bedfordcrazy]

Now i know why i hated mathematics. lol 

george.