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Technical => Exteriors and Interiors => Topic started by: Kirk on March 08, 2011, 12:37:54 PM

Title: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 08, 2011, 12:37:54 PM
Hi Guys,

Long time no chat:)

Well many of you know the woes ive had with my bedford, but i have a ray of sunshine at the moment.

But i need legitamate quotes for work.

Im looking for contacts of workshops/people who would be willing to come to avondale heights to look at the van and give serious quotes for the following work:

Full body rust removal and fabrication of steel flares (body kit type).

Also if possible Motor rebuild/and putting in an automatic.

And paint. Basic paint most likely.

IDEALLY I would be able to get 2 or 3 workshops who can do everything, to come out have a hard look and give a serious quote with breakdowns on the whole job. I realise the job wont be cheap. But as i said...there is a little ray of sunshine.

P.S: This is needed asap like today/tommorow/this week latest.

I have one person to contact...but need a few more.

Thanks,

Kirk.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: aka5000 on March 08, 2011, 12:59:50 PM
G'day Kirk not sure if it was you I pm'd last time, but I'll send you my mates number. Full machine & workshop, spray booth etc, his in Clayton. Phone number in pm.

Alex
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: obsession on March 08, 2011, 01:23:32 PM
send it west. Il do it.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 08, 2011, 01:26:11 PM
Guys its important to note, these need to be legitamie business's as the quotes are to give to a financier.

Plus it will be a long time before i use backyard people again:(
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Zeeman on March 08, 2011, 03:11:36 PM
What you are needing is a shop that can do a full rebuild - panel, paint and mechanical.

Depending on how much rust there is, if you contract a shop to do it all, at minimum $50 per hour, the cost could easily exceed $20,000.

A commitment like this needs more planning than one week, unless you have unlimited money & enjoy throwing it away.

A better plan would be to do one thing at a time, and not overcommit yourself. Find a good panel shop. Get them to do a small job first, eg doors or bonnet.
If you're satisfied with the result, and they don't take months to do it, then go ahead and do the rest. There are just as many shoddy tradesmen in 'legitimate' business as backyarders.

What's your driveline? 202 and auto?
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Rogue Trooper on March 08, 2011, 04:06:47 PM

A better plan would be to do one thing at a time, and not overcommit yourself. Find a good panel shop. Get them to do a small job first, eg doors or bonnet.
If you're satisfied with the result, and they don't take months to do it, then go ahead and do the rest.


I'm with Zeeman. Also that way you can use your own money. Using someone else's money to do up your vehicle is never a great idea. 'Good things take time' as the NZ cheese makers say.

Another idea would be to spend a little money and go and do a couple of night courses in panel work and welding. You could do most of it yourself then and save yourself a packet. I did a welding night course and it's one of the best things I've done. If we had a night class for panel work here I'd go and do that too.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 08, 2011, 04:55:18 PM
Hey guys...I thankyou for your replies, and your all correct and i appreciate you lookin out for me, and being helpfull.

Im trying to not give too much away with my details, as i find the more excited i get, the worse things go...(superstition if you will).

Ill address 2 points:

$20K is about what im expecting, and if this would cover the motor as well, id be wrapped. They are also expecting a price of about this.

Further, this is NOT money i have to pay back, and the reason i say "legite" is because they assumably would want to pay a business direct...so that if the work is anyway faulty/not done, then they can have legal recourse.

2/ Night classes: I not only looked into them, i PAID for 1, thru Kangan Batman, months before it began, i was soooo excited to be able to finally do something myself....ONLY to get a call weeks before it started saying "we are full" and it took a little over a week to get my money back.

Sooo although i still would like to do a course, its not now a priority.

The week: The urgency is basically, i dont want them to find an alternative, i dont want to seem aloof i want to be able to get them what they need asap...showing that im serious about it, and cooperative.

This is the once in a lifetime chance we all dream about to get our vans how we imagine them....all i need is real quotes...real soon:)

I have 1 person comming on thursday this week, but 1 quote is a little lazy:)

Cheers:)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Zeeman on March 08, 2011, 06:22:48 PM
Who are 'they' exactly?

From your scanty details I get the impression that this van will be built/paid for as a work vehicle. Correct?

Custom bodywork is not cheap if done properly. Shops such as Waddington's that specialise in this charge up to $90 an hour.

I have done the Kangan Batman course a couple of times and found it extremely helpful. If you have a workshop, and a welder, you have nothing to lose by attempting it yourself. There are plenty of good sources on the web for self-education in welding and bodywork.
Put it this way - even if you work at 1/3 the speed of a pro, you're still paying yourself $30 an hour. Yes, there will be mistakes, but it's only metal, and can be fixed. Nothing beats the satisfaction of driving a vehicle you restored yourself.

    Mechanical work can be estimated at pretty much a fixed cost. The problem with bodywork - especially on older cars - is once the paint is removed, more and more problems can reveal themselves. The cost can go through the roof pretty easily.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Dano on March 08, 2011, 07:44:52 PM
hey kirk i wish you all the best , you should be able to find a genuine person for around the 20 k , i wouldn't expect anything mechanical for that but at least you know the body will be done, that said , a couple of thoughts?

1)    I'm now getting pretty darn close to 400 hrs on the LWB, you can work out any hourly rate from that,

2) we at work used to charge 135/hr but that's because we had to feed to a few over the top management- they're not there any more  ;)..... now I believe we're somewhere around the 90 mark, we are currently doing a full rebuild on a '78 (i think) "heart to heart" mercedes convertable, .....$95k.has been the word around the workshop, or maybe it was a pre warning, either way you can see the extremities

3) How long would you expect a professional rust panel paint to last on an old vehicle ??

again not trying to put any one/trades down, just my part of the conversation, all the best.Dano
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 08, 2011, 09:10:05 PM
Ok well i dont know how much some comments are as helpfull? But Dano...thanks for the info...

I think the hourly charges you guys are quoting is WAY off the mark for genuine work, and id suggest you may have been scammed?

A reply from Bayside Customs  a little while ago had this to say "The
shop charges $65+ per hour for fabrication." Now id does say "+" but they are probablly from my searches the best known around melbourne.

I got a quote for the custom flare work also at $6K which i believed to be a bit of a scam by the guy who started work on my van...as these were his friends, but none-the-less they had a legitamite business.

(Note: Legitamite business only means registered and pays tax...not necissarily trustworthy or value...dont get me wrong...they can be a bunch of thieving mongrels too).

The guy who is comming on thursday was recommended to me a year or so ago by the people who did my brakes, he said this guy could most likely do a compleete strip down (via soda blast) rust repair and flare work for about $10K. Ofcourse this was his opinion so its not a legite quote, however the guys had seen everything on the van, and spent months with it (they even had a list of things they wanted me to do to the interior lol).

I dont expect the quote to be $20K for just rust and panels....unless they include a decent paint job, the motor id expect to vary...hopefully someone can do a basic rebuild, and throw in an auto for around $2K...but obviously thats something that is up in the air. Im happy with the 202 in it, as im not after fast nor am i after major rego issues...id like reliable and smooth. I have an auto gear box that came with it, but ive no idea if its any good..so it would have to be tested either way.

Tax time is the goal....Easter Van show....thats the miracle (yes its not far away...hence why its a miracle and not even a dream...lol)

I am sure many of you have the feeling of "Why spend $31K" (which would be an estimated total after what ive already spent) on a bedford...just buy one thats almost done...etc...etc.. BUT the bottom line is...she is my first....and its sentimental...weve both suffered for her....and well, id like to see it thru:)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: rush on March 08, 2011, 10:00:01 PM
good luck buddy i hope you achive what you want but i have to agree with the other guys
i have already spent 30,000 on my van and im am only just starting to look at my body
and interior even doing it myself i know it wont be cheap but like i said good luck !!!!
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: BusyKiwi on March 09, 2011, 06:02:23 AM
A good reason to do some yourself, my standard van owes me about 3 and the custom van under 10. would hate to think what it would cost if I paid someone else to do it
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Bedfordcrazy on March 09, 2011, 11:48:07 AM
Hey Kirk, the guy i used here in qld was registered and had a workshop, he charged me $60 an hour, he came to me, by doing it this way i was able to book him when i had the money, i was able to watch him, see his work, solve any design Qs then and there. It also allowed me to can him when i wanted, which i did, and not bcause of his work, he was magic, but his work ethics were that of every day was a holiday. He was trying to run his workshop on the coast, and come to me, which lead to appointments being cancelled all the time, needless to say my van is still in the workshop and not out cruising. To date i still dont have a new guy, so what i am looking at is taking my van to his shop, and doing spot checks to make sure he is working on it. I will be laying out a time frame, an agreed price for each step, and if he does not keep to what we agree he can whistle for his money. $55 to $65 hr for a trade is a reasonable price, if they are as good as my sleepy sheetmetal guy. I am still holding out for a new guy here in the south east, but if not i will have to go back to him, at least i know he will do show quality work.

george.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: restoreid on March 09, 2011, 02:21:38 PM
I dont know George Takeing it to HIS shop you will loose all control he will call the shots & if you dont pay him it will take forever to get your van back I remember years ago when I took my shelby mustang to be painted the bloke promesed the world but when he got it into his shop he started to stuff me around it took months & a solisitor to get it finished & he done a shit job so that's when I learnt to do bodywork & paint myself turned out a top job & I was very proud of it I know that you cant doo the job yourself but keep it inhouse if you can where you can keep controle Cheers Reid
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Bedfordcrazy on March 09, 2011, 05:34:22 PM
Thanks reid, mate i agree totally, the only reason i am looking at this option, is because there are just a heap of small fiddly bits to do body wise, as for paint i was always going to take it to his shop for that part of it. I am going to keep holding off and try to find someone local, there are a few, but i just need to get their details, and they work in their shops, i still have a few months b4 i start up again. I spoke to my sparky today and he thinks he can solve the custom air-con controller problems, so things like that are still happening.
Here is a promise, i WILL be cruising by the 1st of December 2012. So lets see if i can keep that deadline.  :o ::)

george.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: restoreid on March 09, 2011, 05:51:56 PM
Well lots of luck George you certinally deserve it These custom jobs take lots of time & panel beaters like to do the quickie insurance jobs which tend to put the custom jobs on the back burner till they have nothing to do & it's frustrating waiting for them to get back onto your job It's a pity you cant find an out off work panel guy & you supply all the materials & just pay him a decent hourly rate & if he wants money he has to turn up NEVER pay up front it would be like he was on wages & if he wants to feed his family he has to turn up & if hese no good just sack him Maybe an add in your local paper could flush one out Just my 2bobs worth Cheers Reid
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Bedfordcrazy on March 10, 2011, 08:38:59 AM
Hey Reid, mate i have a fully equiped workshop here, even have a steel rack, the guy that was doing it only had to bring a few specialist tools, i had eveything here. The problem with him was that he was building his own drag car, and customer cars were high end mustangs and corvettes. Minimum price $250,000 or up. Chances are i will just ring him later this year, and get him to finish the last of the metalwork, there is only about 10 maybe 15 days of work left on the custom, and then it is off to paint. So not a lot of work left to finish. As for paint, we are probably looking at 8 weeks, may sound a lot, but to gap everything, and get the whole body as straight as glass, airbrush and sandblast, time is about right.
I will get there, i am not beaten yet, and trust me, everyone will know about it when its on the road, i wont be able to contain myself.  ;D ;D ;D

george.

Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 11, 2011, 03:25:05 AM
Sorry to Hijack my own thread fellas????

But im still in need of quotes.

Guy came around today, but was only able to give a rough estimate for soda/sand blasting ($2.5K to $3K for full body in-out-under-engine bay). I was under the impression he did more stuff, but he said not so much these days.

Great guy, and seemed genuinly interested in the project, he is going to sourse some contacts for me, and see what they can do...then if its all good, goes to him, and he will move it from shop to shop...at a small price:)

Things to note:

1/ He all but ignored the rust, and considered the body work to be very minimul (very good sign).
2/ He couldnt stop thinking about the paint....even tho im after just a plain glossy black.....he was really worried about the cost, and wether anyone would actually do it:(
3/ He strongly suggested putting in a small V6 from a commodore, that way i could run a 4 speed auto, and said this option maybe cheaper on fuel, also my drum brakes (new) shouldnt have any problem with it.

So all in all....good and bad...good report, bad result:(

Another thing im noticing....customising companies are VERY flat out. Might be time i opened Kirk's Kustoms" hahaha

So please, anyone in Victoria (preferably western suburbs) That knows someone/ a workshop that does the whole custom thing, let me know, even if its just business names.

I have Bayside looking at pictures and a description of what i want (they seem to do alot more areas of customising).
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Bedfordcrazy on March 11, 2011, 10:04:11 AM
Hey Kirk, hate to burst your bubble, but never get a sandblaster to give advice on mechanical. I dont know the rules for Victoria, but here in qld, this is fact because i have done it, if you go a V6, you MUST upgrade the brakes, to disc. Reason being [qld transport] is that you are amping up the engine horse power, so you need to also amp up the stopping power, disc brakes. If you stay with the normal 6cyl motors you can keep the drums.
Yes your drums may stop you, but here in qld, you will never get it passed, approved and plated, so no rego. I would check your local transport and see what they say. Good luck mate.

george.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 11, 2011, 10:25:08 AM
Thanks Bedford Crazy.

I did mention the stopping power to him, he however said something about the chassis or lack of it, that seemed to mean that this wouldnt be an issue, now yes he is a sodablaster etc...BUT to be fair to him, he also has a raceteam thing (own/built 2 drag cars) and he was pretty genuine (no need for him not to be...hes not charging for the motor).

Either way...id like to find out more:)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Zeeman on March 11, 2011, 10:36:32 AM
3K is a bit steep for blasting. Also why would he ignore the rust? The whole purpose of blasting is to remove the rust, along with whatever else is hiding..

Make sure your whole van is stripped, interior, hanging panels and all. This will make the blasters job a lot easier.

The two that I have used are: ST Blasting in Dandenong, who did an entire LWB, inside, outside and underneath for $1000, including primer.
The other is The Blast Factory in Coburg, who will charge a little more, probably around 1500, but does a great job.

I have been shafted before on blasting jobs, where they've just put primer over the areas where they failed to remove rust. You want it done right the first time.

I will chase up the names of some panelbeaters for you.

If you going to change the motor, you will need an engineers certificate. They will require disc brakes to be fitted.
If you're going to go this far, might as well go the whole hog..
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Bedfordcrazy on March 11, 2011, 10:38:56 AM
Hey Kirk, i did not mean to have a shot at him, just that i have learned the hard way, that when some trades cross over, you may find it an expensive lesson. I just tend to get sparky's to do electrical, sheetmetal doing bodyworks and so on.My sodablast guy told me that he could do some of my custom body work, but as i spoke to him i could tell he did metal work once every blue moon, and his lack confidence could cost me money. As i said, Vic rules may be completely different to ours up here.

george.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 13, 2011, 05:16:35 AM
Zeeman....sounds great, that was 1 thing that was odd and im starting to think maybe this guy isnt the one who was recomended to me (he didnt recognize the name of the person who i thought sent me...but it was a year or so) i was told this guy would even leave it fully primed once finish, but the guy told me he doesnt, so im interested to see yours do.

Hey Crazy, I didnt take it personally or anything....im glad for your advice, i can easily follow bad info, ive done it before and im sure ill do it again, so thanks for the warning. I was trying to explain why i listened to him in regards to mechanical.

Ok well Zeeman any info you can get me, would be fantastic:)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on March 16, 2011, 04:45:03 AM
Noone knows anyone who does this kinda work in a shop? really....c'mon guys:(
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: obsession on March 16, 2011, 08:10:17 AM
oz rods
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Bedfordcrazy on March 16, 2011, 08:45:32 AM
Hey Kirk, we have a few hot rod shops here in qld, so why dont i use them for my van, price, they think they are chip foose and have the right to charge what they want. Just to do my powersteering, disc brakes and engine/gearbox, they wanted to charge me over $20,000. Yes they do good work, but i did all of the above for about $6,000 without checking reciepts, and i had total control over every nut and bolt. So yes i could give you names up here, but i dont think you want to bring your van up here.
I have pay TV here, and there is a melbourne made hotrod show, RODDER'S LIFE  and they are always advertising custom shops down your way, so i am surprised you can't find someone. Good Luck.

george.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Zeeman on March 16, 2011, 03:39:51 PM
Hey Kirk. Here's some panelbeaters that can do steel fabrication and rust repairs in Melbourne. I've kicked tyres at most of these shops and found them straightforward to deal with. Some more expensive than others. If you get stuck, I also know a local guy in Brunswick, who just established a business and does good cheap work. He just fabricated and installed a full boot floor for my mate's Charger for $800.

Waddington's  -   http://www.waddingtonstreetrods.com.au/ (http://www.waddingtonstreetrods.com.au/)

Antique Autoworks  - 5/ 11 Macquarie Drv Thomastown VIC 3074 (03) 9464 4522

Kustom Garage  -   http://www.kustomgarage.com.au (http://www.kustomgarage.com.au)

ROADSTAR PAINTWORKS 9 Ashley Avenue Chelsea Heights VIC 03 9773 4244

Auto Passion - autopassion.com.au

Dave's Kustoms, Laverton North 9931 1115

Doug Smith Auto Repairs - 8 Audrey Ave, Coburg North VIC 3058, (03) 9354 7453

A Grade Panels - 43 Korong Road , West Heidelberg, VIC 3081, (03) 9459 5520
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Zeeman on March 16, 2011, 03:43:02 PM
Also, bear in mind that the best hot rod / fabrication shops have up to a year waiting list..

& like to see plenty of money before they begin work.

What are your plans for the driveline?
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: obsession on March 16, 2011, 03:46:22 PM
give it too me!!!
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: rubman on March 16, 2011, 08:54:03 PM
Hi kirk thats where my van is? At a shop from two guys from the rod shop who have been on (rodders life) they have gone out on there own and a good mate of mine was telling about there good work in general conversation so thats where my van has gone!
$8-$10k including bare metal respray,flare and front end spoiler fitting and custom doors and dash.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Bedfordcrazy on March 17, 2011, 10:14:43 AM
Hey Rubman, please tell me they are taking build pics, OR rodders life is filming it.  ;D ;D

george.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on April 01, 2011, 02:03:03 PM
Just an update....

Wanted to let yas know over the last couple of weeks, ive called just about everybody...some have agreed to view, but never showed up, only 2 people have come...One of which is Graham from Antique Autoworx. who so far has been fantastic, but realistic, im just waiting for his itemised quote/estimate which i expect in the next week.....then i will take it to the company and see what they say, but ive done some research and talked to some people...and even with a bigger figuer i think i can sell it to them (the idea not the van).....fingers crossed:) and thanks for those who replied with contacts.....oh Rubman i tried the number you gave but noone answered:(
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Zeeman on April 02, 2011, 11:45:09 AM
Hey Kirk, glad the numbers were of use.

It's like any tradesmen, if you start with twenty, by the time they've returned your calls, expressed interest, and are actually competent,
you're left with two to choose from.

Antique Autoworx are good. They could build you a Bedford from scratch if you needed!
They will be expensive, but you generally get what you pay for with panelwork.
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: walzaher on June 16, 2013, 04:43:00 PM
Hi everyone sorry to bring up an old topic post here but curious, how does stripping the van, blasting or acid dipping, then panel beating and painting compare to dealing with rust by panel removal and welding but in bit by bit? Clearly the first is more effective but definitely seems more costly, a lot more all at once!

Waseem
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Warren on June 17, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
Wassem

With the stripping of the van and cleaning all you are doing is finding ALL the rust at once, you still need to cutout and replace the rusted sections.

Nothing stopping you repairing a section at a time, the main thing is to remove the rust and reseal it so it cant come back.

Warren
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: BusyKiwi on June 17, 2013, 01:37:52 PM
It cost me about a grand to get my custom van sand blasted, that's the shell and all the panels I took off, the only thing they wouldn't do was the roof (it was off the van) as it would of buckled.

If you see rust, you need to clean it right back and then cut it ALL out, a wire brush in a drill (or hand one) will only polish the rust, wont remove it, same as with these "rust killers" on the market, they stain your fingers, goes on steel purple and turns rust black. It doesn't actually kill the rust, just neturalizes it for a while. cleaning up the rust and coating it is actually giving it life again - new oxygen.
Sand/soda/coconut shell/bead .... blasting does work, same as acid dipping (no one in Auckland has a big enough tank for complete car or van, there is one down south), acid dipping does work BUT it also gets into the seams (bedford seams are glued) and the acid can leech out over time and destory your paint. pros and cons with everything.

Sand blasting: only blasts the visible panels, things like inside sills remain rusty and rust out (they usually rust from inside out)

Acid dipping: gets inside everywhere and works well but can leech out years later if not neturalized properly.

My standard CF I took back to metal by hand and cut out all the rust I could find, 3 or 4 years later (i forget how long ago I did it) I have a few little rust bubbles coming out, not using it doesn't help.
Because it rusts from the inside out, what you see is usually only the tip of whats there so you should always cut out several inches (25mm to an inch) around what you see.
I remember when I used to do homers, people would often say I have this small bit of rust under the windscreen rubber ... I'd reply back it's going to be a major (especially if it was the corner), they wouldn't believe me, so after the screen came out and it was cleaned up they were shocked to find out how big a hole was there.
When you weld to close to rust (if it doesn't blow holes) it actually weakens the steel, the heat of the weld fuels the rust.

Rust proofing: You can buy rust proof which can work well BUT used wrong and it actually works against you. With rust proof less is actually more. If you pour it in, it will sit in all the pockets and work great until it heats up, then it will dry up and crack (like an old tin of paint), when it cracks the water sits in the cracks - with no where to go and starts rusting out the steel.
The best way to rust proof is to thin it down (check on side of container as to what it can be thinned with, must are with kerosene), on a hot day spray the thinned mixture into every hole you can find, even drill some if you can't get into a certain area. spray well and let it all drain out - hense the hot day. Leave it drain for a few days then do another thinned coat and again wait, then 3rd time a light normal coat. The thinned brew will get into more areas
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: John Abbott on June 17, 2013, 02:00:18 PM
Good advice there Busy. Its a bugger that rust. I have had good results with Fisholene  (fish oil base) Brings every cat in the area around  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: walzaher on June 18, 2013, 08:25:01 AM
Appreciate the replies very interesting. So does mean that with bedfords cutting and welding out rust , even after doing a complete sand blast and cutting/welding, will always b a reality that cannot be eliminated totally?? Will this apply to all older cars or is the rust problem just on bedfords because of the way they were made or do old cars in general suffer from the same rust issues? To me it would seem normal for all cars to rust and once it starts its nearly impossible to remove it fully, for example in between the metal sheet layers as Busy Kiwi suggested.

Waseem
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: BusyKiwi on June 18, 2013, 09:19:23 AM
The biggest problem with bedford is they were made in bare metal then painted (sprayed not dipped), example if you look up under your dash you'll probably see bare metal. So everywhere you can't get a spray gun wouldn't of been painted. A lot of older cars were made this way, and a few design faults (water traps) but they did use real steel back then, you wont see a toyota (or any jap van) lasting as long as a old car can.

In NZ, the post office brought hundreds of CF's, they had them all rustproofed (most were made in NZ and were converted to 6 cly but some were brought in from Oz), these vans, while given a hard time are the ones that have lasted the best.
You'll mostly find were bedfords rust is where they have had no paint or rust proof. Road grime can actually act as a rust proofing, but dirt, sand and other stuff trap water. I've even taken a sill off a van and found weeds growing on the inside of the sill.

The main parts you really need to keep an eye on are:
#1 the roof seam
If there is rust on the bottom of the back door pillars or side door pillars the roof sealer will crack/split allowing water to get inside, a hair line crack is enough.

#2 the bottom of the pillars
If these rust you loose the strength, and if you find your back doors opening while going around a tight bend its a sure sign you have rust. rusty pillars allow the van to flex and this can crack the sealer, break the spot welds and open the panels allowing moisture into the panels

#3 around the grommets and drain holes
front and back of the rear wheel you'll find rubber grommets, these can be forgotten to be replaced, rusted away (the hole not the rubber), or just missing. fine grit will get into these holes and build up in the sill and rear panel, the drain holes are rather small but can work well if kept clean.
As often as you check your oil you should crawl under your van and clean these drain holes (bottom of the doors, sills, rear corners and rear panel), a thin screw driver or even an ice block stick

#4 windows
Always seal ALL your window rubbers (not the drivers or passengers), use a proper windscreen sealer and test for leaks with a hose. The back doors ones hardly need sealer as they are a real tight fit, but test anyway.

extra bit.
One thing bedford forgot to add was a compression flap, if you look in the boot of a jap car you'll see little rubber flaps, these are to equalize the inside/outside air when you close the door with all the windows are up, without them you'd pop a window out if you were able to close the door. In the bedford (nowadays) they aren't really needed as the rubbers are worn and it doesn't seal like a water proof box but if you replace all your door rubbers, seal everything and have trouble closing the door with window up (but easy when window down) then you need to add a in/outlet, just taking out a rubber bung in the floor can be enough
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: John Abbott on June 18, 2013, 01:43:20 PM
Quick question Busy,,,  I plan to do a complete pull down and rebuild on my truck, do you think it is worth my while to un pick the welds on the front guards to have a look behind them.? :-\
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: BusyKiwi on June 18, 2013, 01:53:58 PM
The guards themselves usually rust in 3 places, across the top by the screen, down the side beside the door and around the wheel arch.
If you don't have rust in any of these sections it's probably not worth it, but to see if there is rust under, which there are only 2 parts that rust, take your top door hinge out and shine a torch up there, the other place is under the wheel arch on the joiner panel (bad design), take the wheel off and look at the centre, the joiner panel is usually only rusted if it's been leaking for a long time, but the guard (under the door) can rust out, which is above and back of the joiner.

To get the guard off though it's a combination of spot welds, braze and mig weld. it's brazed on the front panel around the front indicator, spot welded top and around the wheel arch and spot and mig'd down the door seam area.
If the top of the pillar is rusted it's likey the little drain panel under the top of the front guard has rust too
If you do take it off, fit the door and align to top and back and fit guard to suit, it probably wont go back in exact same spot but thats ok
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: John Abbott on June 18, 2013, 06:01:22 PM
Cheers Buddy ;D
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: walzaher on June 18, 2013, 07:35:49 PM
Thanks so much for the info busy kiwi very interesting... I'm still processing that information :) why don't you drive your bedford as a daily?
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: BusyKiwi on June 19, 2013, 06:43:21 AM
why don't you drive your bedford as a daily?
Because I had to many toys, I had 2 vans, a car and motorbike, the motorbike was my daily driver. My fiance lives in Hamilton and I in Auckland (am in Hamilton at the moment), I was coming down every second week, now a days I come down for several weeks (hense why no work is getting done on the customvan, plus the fact I got sick). but I recently sold the bike and the standard van is also used as storage for parts and stuff so use the car which is also a bit cheaper to run than the van. I need to get the standard van sold and hurry up and finish the custom van
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: walzaher on June 19, 2013, 07:26:39 AM
Out of interest, how much will you be selling your standard van Busy Kiwi? I'm on the lookout for options  :)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: BusyKiwi on June 19, 2013, 09:46:33 AM
no idea to be honest
when I say its my standard CF, I mean standard compared to my custom CF, the standard CF has VN commodore running gear, tank, dash, steering, wiring ... but the body is standard
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: walzaher on June 19, 2013, 12:22:41 PM
Yep cool let me know when you decide Busykiwi :) I would be interested. Especially if you are selling later on in the year :)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: walzaher on June 19, 2013, 01:58:20 PM
Hi Busykiwi,

Quick question please, when you say the front and rear pillars for rust, is this where you mean to look for rust where I have circled?? thanks very much indeed

(http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=8&g2_itemId=46178&g2_imageViewsIndex=1)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: walzaher on June 19, 2013, 01:59:07 PM
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=46178&g2_serialNumber=1)
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: BusyKiwi on June 19, 2013, 07:49:47 PM
bottom of the back door pillars, and bottom of the side door pillars for structure (where the pillars joins the floor), inside the front door hinge pillar is common too.

the bit you circled under the fuel cap is common to rust as well but isn't as structural as it has that whole panel for support
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Adam on June 15, 2016, 08:46:42 PM
frightening
Title: Re: Who can do full body fabrication and rust repairs?
Post by: Kirk on November 27, 2016, 12:29:45 PM
Wow, its been half a decade if you can believe that  :o I spose ill update those who arnt part of the Bedford Vans Australia Facebook Page.

Way back when i started this post, id engaged with a brand new online Poker company, something which i was then and even now heavily involved with. I proposed to them, a deal where for 5yrs they would own all signage of the vehicle Both inside and out. (back then Car Ads wernt that common, and a VAN like a windowless Bedford? wow). Anyway, they agreed with almost everything, and as per my comments, i got quotes from cheap to top end ($60K + for the Aotoworx showvan (best in Aus it would have been by far..i mean the worx literally, none would have compared..but easy to say, when it didnt happen lol)

Bottom line is, as per the Automotive industry, people just BULLsh-ted their way, and never turned up. I did the course, but it i personaly failed, as i felt conflicted about Mig vs Tig, and since i did a cheap course, i felt un-confident about my skills.

At the end of the day, I do STILL OWN the van, and it resides in my Garage to this day (a decade). I am blessed in that ive not moved, and thus havnt had to face the conflict of removing it. I am cursed in that its cost me some $6K in purchase + Brakes+ Towing+stuff+getting hurt by trusted people (scroll the story).

Im updating this, as Im about to have to purchase a NEW cra, and i dont want too...it will forever feel like a failure if i do. BUT i need reliabilty and my job, so its set in stone.

Im asking, just 1 last time, does someone know a place of credability that would turn an old Van into a new Roadworthy and 5yr lasting vehicle...Nothing flash, but something quality (my $60K quote included 15K paint + 15K interior...+ 15K full metal custom.

anyhow..im down to weeks i spose lol.
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