BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Bean on September 03, 2014, 08:25:56 AM
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Hi Guys
After heaps of time ,energy and frustration I have hit another wall ,this time with the transport department,
The front track of my van is 150mm wider than the original and according to them that's not permitted ,+25 is the max, If I go back to standard commodore rims its only improves the situation by 50 mm as the front mags have a -25 offset. Apart from pulling the whole system out and starting from scratch does anyone have any idea on how I could get around this one.I would have thought that the geometry around the stub axil and disc configuration would be the area of concern, the width wouldn't matter -apparently not the case, the code says 25 over the original and they go by the code -All assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Hey Bean, sorry to hear that you are having to jump through some extra hoops.
So, if I'm understanding your post correctly the 150mm that you are over the standard is made up of an extra 50mm in your current front rims (25mm each side) plus an extra 100mm due to your front disk brake conversion. Is this correct ?
If so what disk conversion do you have up front ? If its the usual HQ disc machined for Bedford outer bearing, standard HQ caliper and a caliper mounting plate then an extra 100mm sounds excessive.
Let us know what disc setup you are running and also the width of your current front rims.
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the issue is that the further out the wheel sits the more load it puts in the stub axle which if too much could bend or snap it off!
but i agree its hard to comprehend it being that much wider than stock .... and i know with my VT twin piston brake conversion its actually sitting the wheel in more over stock, but im not sure how much of that is the wheel offset v's the hub!
i will have to measure so i know ...
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Hey Sammy Using The commodore rims with the 5inch backspace from centre of tyre to centre of tyre was 5mm more than standard beddie & the steering was no heavier
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That has even got me thinking/worried. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I am not up to that stage yet but...........
So what is the measurement it has to be ? 1645mm?
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Hi Bean, Generally if your change your motor to a bigger motor, you have to put better brakes on , The usual option is HQ disc's. When you put the disc brakes on the beddie, it makes it a tad over , if you don't improve the brakes then you wont be able to get the bigger motor. A big vicious circle.. The beddie I had in Vic when it had the 253 in it. I had the steel monaro 6 inch rims, on it and it was over. after discussion with the engineer it seemed impossible to get the track within limits unless you go back to the standard drums, which you can't do when putting in a different motor. Thats what is on the engineers report which I still carry in the van..
I could be wrong but i don't think there are many beddie's running around that are still running original drums.
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Not even if you had custom rims?
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getting rims made would probably be the only real way of doing it.
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I'm with Sammy on this- extra strain is the issue. Think of it as a fulcrum......
As for the solution. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Time to do some measuring people.
Mine is standard drums and has to stay that way for cheap rego. ;D ;D ;D
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That sucks big time , sorry to hear Bean
You go to all that trouble to be told " Oh sorry its 150 mm too wide " . Such red tape should be abolished , unless its actually unsafe .
Could be a loophole for a way to negate this rule . Maybe some engineer could write a letter that over rides this rule ???
I dont know , trying to think outside the square . But your dealing with square heads .
Hope you find a way to beat the system , without costing an arm or a leg . Get it in to square heads that Bedford Vans come in so many shapes
and sizes . Ask for some compassion . Anyway good luck . Frank
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Confuse them and make them work ...
Example, say your van is a swb 230cwt, tell them you've upgraded to a 350cwt front end (steel wheel lwb front end, only difference is spindle size, fatter springs, bigger brakes and longer steering arms). You can show them the Haynes manual for load weights etc
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Hi All
Thanks for the advice - The plan from here is to make an appointment and go and see the fella in person with the van.
He and all his propeller heads can then see the effort that's gone into it and hopefully see the logic around the stub axil geometry,
Apart from this little hic up she is really starting to take shape.
I'll keep you posted.
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Lost the war!!! - I've had to put on some old thin 0mm offset rims in order to get back to the original track +50mm as its a commercial vehicle. I think I've come in
at 1705mm which they will accept with it being certified by a 3rd party engineer, It looks really stupid but at least she'll get over the pits , after that I'll make her pretty again. Hopefully the letter of authorisation will come through next week and I'll have her on the road
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Confuse them and make them work ...
Example, say your van is a swb 230cwt, tell them you've upgraded to a 350cwt front end (steel wheel lwb front end, only difference is spindle size, fatter springs, bigger brakes and longer steering arms). You can show them the Haynes manual for load weights etc
Hey Busy,
Is a 350cwt front a wider track than a 230cwt
Do they measure from wheel center to wheel center?
Cheers marty
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Hey Marty, am not 100% sure (memory is failing me), I think they are slightly because of the bigger drums etc but I think the steel wheels have less offset.
I know from helping with the power steering kit that there is a steering rack (350cwt and some lwb) that is a bit longer in the tie rods arms. centre and tie rods are the same, just arms are about 10mm longer each (think it was 10)
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Cool
Thanx busy
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what debarkle. imagine how much wider than standard vans are with flares and big wheels!! :(
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Yeah Ben its a load of bull,
If anything i recon it makes them safer with wider gear.
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Its finally happened , got the green light from safety standards to proceed to the pits next week, 9 months and plenty of frustration .
Been attending to odds and ends that could be done prior to the pits , like the custom wing in carbon- fibre,and the carbon trim around the windscreen and front windows
Its starting to take shape now.
The pretty stuff can can start happening from next week
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so does that mean you have sorted out the track issues ?
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Yeah - I had to go back to silly little wheels for the exercise of doing the pits in order for them to accept ,
I ended up getting 4 new rims and tyres 205 x 70 x 15R, Fortunately I have managed to find a new home for them once the pits are done with, The track is still wider than its supposed to be at 1710 but being a commercial vehicle they have given 50mmm grace. I'll go back to the good looking ones as I really don't see there being any major stress on the stub axils with that amount of rubber on the inside,. the structural engineers at work agree.
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Good to hear Bean.
Thank the mighty god , Lord Bedford Griffen for that extra 50 mm . ;D
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Hey Bean good to hear Bud , well done! I've had the same paperwork on my desk for a year now but the houses were more important and now are 99.9% complete, I will now have to travel the same pain full path asap,
I would love to catch up and ask a few questions, any advice would be appreciated, just basics like where you went, who you delt with? Once someone has an understanding of Beddies, it will make the world of difference.
Me thinks I might have to have the next BBQ ?
cheers Dano
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Dano - I think the next BBQ is long over due .
I live about 200m from the new Bunnings in Mindarie, If you're ever up this way drop in for a beer and we can go through all the red tape maps that you are heading for -.It's not that bad once you know where you're going and who to deal with - I think after Tuesday when she is through the last hoop I'll be able to relax and start enjoying her. The coastal get away's are starting to look appealing..
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You read my mind Dano. :D I want to ask the same questions as well !! ;) Could be a coastal run/bbq up there i think..? :)
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Carbon one of a kind wing is now complete, if the rest of the van comes out like this I'll be a very happy camper.
Wheel flares and sunken number plate cavity next