BUGA Community
General Category => The Sump => Topic started by: Bas / NZ on August 09, 2013, 06:33:16 PM
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Please vote as to what you feel is best, seems to be 50 / 50 on this issue
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I know it's a poll and all but just had to add my 2cents
I've been working with bog for about 30 years now, or 30 years since i started using it. I was always die hard bog on steel type then about 10 years ago we did some experiments with bogs (different grades of polyester, newtech ... ), the test wasn't actually for bog but rather how long bog over rust lasted - was what we thought (about 6months for bog, 12 for newtech, 3-18 for fibreglass ...)
Anyways, the panels preprimed actually stood up better off over time as the baremetal panels quite often displayed hand prints or fingers - the acid from the hands can create the start of rust. Also the metal can sweat, bog will soak up moisture.
Long story short I now always use primer first, doesn't have to be epoxy, etch primer is best.
Also another problem is primer isn't waterproof and a lot of people bag and prime and leave for a long time, the only real waterproof primer is an epoxy urethane.
It's not cheap, about $90 a litre and can't be primed later, has to be wet primed (a primer over a wet or soft coat)
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Thanks David, I was told to use Resene's Dureopox 2k primer ( epoxy urethane), what brand of etch primer to you mean.
Bas
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I have to agree, etch primer then bog then I normally prime over the top of that.
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Hey how many people does it take before its a mass debate? ;D ;D ;D
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What about deoxidene, its a rust treatment.
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I wouldn't bog over any rust treatment, once it's dry/hard sand it off with sandpaper, then etch then bog.
The rust stuff usually creates a skin, and over time this skin comes away from the metal.
Rust treatments don't really work, for it to work a little you need to coat both sides (usually impossible to get to underside), only real way to get rid of rust is to sand/soda/bead .. blast (both sides) or cut it out.
Think of a piece of wood with borer, you could wipe one edge down with kerosone which can kill them, bog up the holes, paint it and enjoy, but mean while the other side is still untreated and will continue to be eaten away.
Rust stuff like fisholene can work ok but only if spray on clean metals, is a waste of time putting it on rusty metal as it's a prevention thing not a killing thing, but rust is a different subject, bog is the subject on hand :)
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Rust converter - no as it leaves a film, Rust killer Yes (tergo rust killer) wipe on wash off- but only good on mild surface rust, the kind of rust you can grind off and can't see it is there.
1/ Rust Killer as above
2/ Epoxy primer
3/ bog - filler
4/ primer
5/ Top coat
use a wax grease remover between next stages
This came from a mate in Germany that does restore work, did father in-laws car 10years ago still good today, so will follow this path myself, not to say it is the only way, but..........
Also ask about etch primer, he said yes but best suited to 1k primer...
Also said to use Epotec primmer (epoxy primer) by protec, reason, he said it can be sanded outside the window period very well unlike some brands.
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Also depends on the type of primers/paints you use, some primers prefer to stick to etch primer rather than bog or steel, others have a type of etch built in.
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Yes David I value your advise, given your talent and background as I am sure you have more know how and skill than most of us put together on here.
Just hard to get 100% yes on either way, so will go with the system I have seen, in the end if you have rust cut it out, I was talking about light surface rust only after a grind, in most cases the epoxy etc will do the job given the fact they contain rust inhibitors and is used as a sealer.
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Hi fellas ....interesting discussion...as we all have to deal with the dreaded rust in Bedfords.
Have any of you guys had any experience with Pour 14 the French epoxy rust and paint treatment?
I've heard that its pretty amazing.
Cheers
Ian
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We did my mates Pontiac in POR15, is meant to like being put on surface rusted surfaces. It went on well, self leveling ... but a month or so later it peeled off in sheets. The rep for the stuff came out and had a look and reckoned he'd never seen that happen before, gave us full replacement but we didn't end up using it again.
Have heard similar stories over time but mostly good stuff. is very expensive though as you're meant to use the pre wash, the POR # then their post wash or primer
http://www.por15.com/ (http://www.por15.com/)
http://www.permanentpaintedcoatings.co.nz/por15/ (http://www.permanentpaintedcoatings.co.nz/por15/) video of the process on this site (shows 3 steps)
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POR15 isn't UV stable, better off using KBS. Ive used KBS diamondfinish clear over PPG base coat...awesome. This time trying the KBS blacktop as a top coat. ;)
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I have just started using the KBS system, and so far the results are looking good, have only done some small parts so far just to test, but will properly use for the whole under body and inner guards
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for the underbody of my custom van I used what was being sold as roof paint, truck drivers started using it so now has been re branded, can brush or spray it on, self leveling and has a gloss (ish) finish, is water proof, able to handle all weather conditions... I put that on and undersealed over top
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Hey Busy, roof paint, is that the black bitumen paint.
Q. There is a spray on material they use for truck/ute tray floors, could you use that underneath a vehicle ? or would it be noisy, or an issue with rust.
George.
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no not the bitumen type, this was grey and went on like wet rtv. The tin doesn't have any brand names or anything - I think they poured 10 litre buckets into 4L tins.
There are several spray on liners on the market, the more basic type is called "stone guard" or "stone chip", very good to put on guards around the bottom of wheel arches and on front panels etc. You can use it underneath but it doesn't have the sound deadening properties of underseal, plus stone guard should be applied over a painted surface, then again so should underseal. Why you ask, 2 layers are better than one, if a stone chips the underseal it still has a layer of paint to stop the water getting in, overwise if the underseal is over bare metal the water can get under the underseal once waters gets to the steel