BUGA Community
Technical => Maintenance => Topic started by: Warren on December 04, 2008, 03:23:36 PM
-
Hey Guys
Just wondering what sort of welders people use out there.
I currently have a CIG Handyman Arc welder and a Dillon oxy welder but I have been toying with buying myself a MIG/TIG welder for Xmas, one like This (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/JASIC-Mig160-DC-Inverter-160Amp-Mig-Tig-Arc-Welder-18kg_W0QQitemZ170283771374QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_BnI_Woodworking_Metalworking?hash=item170283771374&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)
Any points worth considering please post em.
So what have you got, pro's and cons.
Warren
-
have you ever used a tig before? some of the cheaper ones are good but you need a start button or pedal to make it easier.
also you want to make sure you can upgrade to using one if you dont want to buy the fuul kit strait up.
Ben
-
I just use mig, current one is 170 but usually have around 200
welding can be very expensive, with mig you just need wire and argon shield (gas), with tig you need argon (gas) and welding rods and quite often tips (don't use cheap tips).
I built my very first custom van with an arc welder, panelled side windows, side skirts and all
I perfer mig, a lot easier to work on vans and things as the tig is very tight to work with - not easy to get up to weld gutters etc or move around like mig
160 amp would be the minimum to go for, they have no problem with panel steel all day but anything thicker and they start to overheat and auto cut out
-
I have a 260 amp mig for my structual work and 200 amp variable program ac/dc hf tig for my panel work (its not advisable to hammer work mig welds as the weld bead is harder due to the higher silica content in mig wire) hope this helps :)
-
Ive never used this one but I have seen a demonstration..
Amweld or henrob looks clean and does light guage work.
I also looked at a water plasma welder new russian invention last year uses water rather than air the amazing thing will weld .6mm sheet with ease, up to 13mm steel plate ,clean strong and doubles as a cutter damn expensive though about US$2900
-
gee thats expensive ay.. far out!
i paid 400 bucks second hand for my cig mig.. 180amp i use .6 wire all the time cause most of the time i use it for panel work. i have wanted to get a tig for a while.. but now busy says he prefers mig, maybe ill have a re think..
cheers
ben
-
Don't get me wrong Ben, tigs are great. At the end of the day it's user preference - example, you're using .6 wire and I'm using .8
A welder is like a motorbike, a woman or even your computer, knowing them, knowing them well will give you the highest return, having them set up to your style works better than just off the shelf.
They reckon it takes about 1000k's to get used to a motorbike
I reckon it takes about 25+ years to slightly understand a woman lol
I doubt anyone in the world uses their computer to 100% of it's capability
-
Busy I think you might be right there..
coz Ive just worked out what ESC does on my computer.
now If I can just find the same button on my wife hmmmmm???
( only joking baby . . . oh no no no baby not the fryingpan ouch ouuuuuuuchhhh dong boing bang)
bye guys
-
have you ever used a tig before? some of the cheaper ones are good but you need a start button or pedal to make it easier.
also you want to make sure you can upgrade to using one if you dont want to buy the fuul kit strait up.
Ben
Hey Ben
I'm in telecommunications now, sitting in front of a pooter all day, but in my past life I was a fitter and turner.
I am a competent welder and have done years of ARC, a bit less MIG, and some TIG.
I'm also good at fusion (oxy) welding, so I'm not daunted by TIG.
I want something I can do panel work with, as well as light fabrication, doesn't have to be a top of the line unit as it will only get used on a hobbyist level.
I understand you get what you pay for but I don't want to over capitilise as well.
I have been reading a few welding forums and well opinions are like ass holes - everyones got one, and everyone Else's stinks :D
But I have gathered that for panel work, using a Mig to tack and hold in place the panels, then TIG or fusion welding the joints seems to offer the best results.
Warren
-
hey warren, yeah you definantle dont want to over capitilise. you also dont want a cheap welder that is useless, but at least you have done it before.
i bought a kempii second hand and its great, but unless you know someone who is parting with it for cheap cheap then they are too much.
my first one that i used (which you are welcome to try) is just an electra beckum inverter (140 amp) with a $110 tig kit. works well providing you can arc it without killing the electrode... took me abit of getting used to.
but you can get a pedal or button for these also... hopefully you get one thats easy enough to use anyway...
Ben
-
Yep booga
With the finances being what they are, I'd like to pay no more than say $800, maybe uto $1K, but $500 would be better :D
Does anyone have info on CO2 versus argon for gas MIG/TIG, also thoughts on the Gasless welding?
Warren
-
you are welcome to come past my factory in dandenong if you are in the area and try my small plant if you like...
it was worth $600 approx 2 to 3 yrs ago.
personally i have an opinion which clearly states, bla blah dont like blah blah
yep your right, everyone has one
if you do well at it tho, there is another cost eliminated on reg and what ever shield you are using
-
Thanks for the offer Booga
I work in the Clayton area, so a long lunch could be on the go :D
Warren
-
that does sound like its the go..
just let me know when u can because i do alot of field work... not always in... will sort something out though
Ben
-
FFFAAAAAAAARRRRRTTTT POOOT peeep pfft just my opinion !!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
i bought a cheap $100 Italian gassless mig (from auto pro) that seemed to just spit and splutter. i rang my cousin and got him to have a go and after 2 minutes he told me to throw it in the bin and count my losses....
it sat in my garage for one and a half years and seeings i needed some wielding done and all the people that said they would do it for me never showed up i dragged it back out for a look....
being a cheep wielder i summarized it would have cheap wire so off i went to bunnings and bought some cig weld gasless wire for it and crossed my fingers...
welds fine on panel work with the new wire and i could tell straight away the wire was completely different... the wire that came with it was hard like thin fencing wire and the cig weld was soft and more like solder...
i would not try to weld anything other then panels but that's all i need it for so im very happy i didn't throw it away...
-
Whats the bet that the wire you had was for a gassed welder :)
-
If you are using gasless then you should try "Splatter Shield" or something like it. Ask at any welding supplier.
-
Whats the bet that the wire you had was for a gassed welder :)
yes i could not make out any flux or whatever you call it when i had a look at a cross section of the old wire so you may very well be correct ;)
what is "Splatter Shield" used for?
-
It stops the excess flux and stuff from sticking to your work.
-
how did you go with it the gasless mig able?
-
how did you go with it the gasless mig able?
seems to work fine ben although i have not got much experience to measure it against....
i had a few stress tears on the back corners underneath and i push the panel to match and tak every two centimeters untill its holding form then i tak and grind tak and grind.... i do not want to heat up the metal to much so i do not try to wield it in one go....
the holes i found where former owners have used slide hammers i tak at the top and then slowly move around like a snail shell untill i reach the middle. then i grind and tak any holes i missed....
im just getting back out into the shed after a very bad flu and other responsibilities getting in my way but im fully charged after the van nats. nothing like seeing what can be achieved with alittle love and elbow grease ;)
-
Gday Able
Sounds like you have worked it out, panel welding that is. Slow and steady makes for a good job.
You are right about getting some motivation from the Nats. Heaps of ideas!
Craig
-
Interesting string, ive used mostly Mig welders, but a grew up around ARC as my old man was an engineer and we always had a welder at home.
Silly me though, spent all these years working on cars and never asked tho old boy to teach me to weld, until one day i realised he was too old and sick to teach me, it still makes me sad.
Anyway I have a brilliant old Apex 180amp Arc and shes a beaut, can be set up for either single 240V or 3 phase 400V.
It welds really nice and i icked it up on trade me for a $100 bucks, great deal.
I can Arc panal steel with her down around 35amps but you have to be real carefull and use the right size sticks.
I have been wanting to buy another Mig for some time now as id prefer to do my panal steel work with a Mig.
I had a really nice industrial one in my auto shop some years back and I should of kept it, I was a bit enthusiastic about what gear I put in with the sale of the company.
The ARC is great to have around though for when you make heavey stuff like A frames and structures using 10 and 14mm plate.
The best thing about a Mig is guys with very little experiance can still make a reasonable job and not have a huge tidy up after.
Before long they are welding like pro's.
Rusty
-
yeh i herd people in the old days before migs were around used to use arc for welding panel steel.. i herd of people also using compressed air to cool the panel steel to stop warpage..
ben
-
another way is oxy and then throw a wet towel on it helps shrink the expanded/warped steel back to close to normal
But still prefer mig
-
the compressed air and wet towels do work but only when done properly
The good, the bad and the ugly:
wet towels/rags are wet with water, water + steel is rust
compressed air contains moisture, moist air + steel is rust
no don't get me wrong I have and do use these techniques but with caution. The compressed air is probably better for patch welding but even better is slower welding, spot weld every couple of inches, wait till warm to the touch and go around again, very long and boring but the best way to avoid warpage.
the wet rag is ideal for shrinking, shrinking with heat is an art in itself but bascially you heat a circle with the oxy/acl to a size dependant on the warpage, the spot is held with a dolly white it's hammered around the hot spot (hammering inwards) and finishing on the dot. The wet rag is then quickly wiped over the heated spot, then again quickly, then again and then slowly dragged over the heat spot. cooling it to fast and to slow have different effects. This isn't really something that can be typed about, it really needs to be shown