BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: ShaneJ on November 27, 2012, 06:57:05 PM
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Hey all
So I'm trying to get my van on the road by christmas but I have just remembered the shifter being very loose and floppy and almost impossible to find gears outside reverse and 1st. From memory this is the reason I pushed the van in the shed and never looked at it again.
So my first question is, can the 3 speed shifter be made to actually work? And secondly, does anyone have any instructions on how to achieve this?
Thank you
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these may sound like stupid questions, but having never driven a standard bedford you'll have to be lenient.
Is this shifter a floor mount or column mount, and i assume this is the standard holden box.
We rebuild the floor shifters ourselves from 4speed shifters, cut out the reverse gear linkage, as the first-second linkage becomes reverse-first. the gearbox extension housing needs modificatiion if this is not already done, tho you can use a 4 speed extension housing if you manufacture a way to hold the bearing in i the 3 speed box. This is how my HQ street car is currently setup as opposed to the original setup of the race cars as we couldnt previously use the 4 speed extension housing.
I am almost certain that odin auto parts in WA have rebuilt 4 speed shifters in stock, similarish to what we do. not sure on pricing tho as i've never bought one
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Yeah its a floor mount.
I don't want to invest a lot of time(cause I don't have any) and I don't want to invent a lot of money because the engine/box wont be in there for a very long time.
Thanks mate
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Shane
They are a relatively easy fix, two places to look at,
1 is the actual linkage connections and linkage shafts - ensure minimal wear and firm pins, bronze weld and redrill to reduce slack.
2 is the actual selector themselves, I will see if I can find the old one I repaired and take some photos, but if you have a look at it you can see sevaral areas where there are weaknesses:
the first is where the arms go around the pivot shaft, there is a small link to stop them spreading, this cracks or breaks completely allowing them to spread.
the other is where the gear lever comes down into the slector.
* I just took some pictures, but its late, and the phone won't work with this PC
I will update this tommorow with Pic which should show how to do it a lot easier.
Warren
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Thanks Warren.
I have had a look at the 2 "selector bits" that the selector pin goes into to move them back and forward. They seem to be a little loose and almost allow the pin to move down between them. Does the shaft they pivot on come out? I might need to put a shim on it?
Also I might have to adjust one of the linkages as the slots the pin moves in to dont line up with each other.
Sorry for the poor terminology.
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Thanks Warren.
I have had a look at the 2 "selector bits" that the selector pin goes into to move them back and forward. They seem to be a little loose and almost allow the pin to move down between them. Does the shaft they pivot on come out? I might need to put a shim on it?
Also I might have to adjust one of the linkages as the slots the pin moves in to dont line up with each other.
Hey Shane
The pin is held in by a small bolt on the selector arm ("selector bits") side of the shifter.
These first two pic show whwere mine cracked
One side
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43759&g2_serialNumber=2)
the other side
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43765&g2_serialNumber=2)
also at the bottom there is a small tab that joins the sides together that cracks as well.
To fix my shifter I pulled it all apart (take some pics of the assembly and where the shims go) I then clamped the main shifter arm in a vice with the shaft between it (pack a piece of paper in between the shaft and one of the shifter fork for clearance, I didnt and it was a bit tight for a while) .
I then welded some 25mm by 8mm flat steel the length of the forks, see below
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43775&g2_serialNumber=2)
I then welded the cracks and re enforced the upper part of the shifter forks, see below
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43770&g2_serialNumber=2)
In this picture it shows the shifter in the "pushed across" position for reverse and first - note that the piece of flat that I welded in only goes half way, this is to allow the shifter to pivot sideways and not bind.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43780&g2_serialNumber=2)
Put it all back together, test that it is "tight" and re install, then use the adjusters on the shifter arms to ensure that the "Gate" all lines up.and your done.
Use split/spring pins and washers to reduce the amout of sideways play in the links as well.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=14956&g2_GALLERYSID=2329efb09f3ab102a99b1d20a597b9cf)
Hope this is clear enough
Warren
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Thanks Warren, Luckily my shifter isn't cracked so I wont have to do to much work.
In your 3rd picture, what does that flat bar do that you welded on? Is there something there normally that was broken on yours? Or is it just to help tighten it up?
One thing that is obvious on my is that the shifter pin is warn. I dont have any pictures of mine yet so I will use yours:
This pin is warn:
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43784&g2_serialNumber=1)
The spacing between the gates? is also considerable on mine. It looks like another shim or washer needs to be added to tighten it up:
The arrow point up shows where the is a bit of a gap on my shifter. The other arrow shows where it could do with a shim.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43787&g2_serialNumber=1)
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Shane
Yes in picture 3 there was a smaller piece there that had cracked on one side allowing the forks to spread and induce a lot of slack.
Shimming might be all you need to do, although some sideways movement is required for the sideways shift to select 1st/reverse. From experience the forks spreading causes most off the slack.
If your going to the trouble of fixing it I would at least do the bottom (pic 3) then check if the pin is aligned as it could be bent (but not cracked) in the upper section of pic 4.
That could explain why it is worn.
You could build it up with some weld and then re shape it remebering that the tip is widest at the bottom (2nd & 3rd selector) that the top (1st/reverse)
I can pull it apart and take some more pictures if required - let me know.
Warren
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I shouldn't need any more pictures yet. I'll pull mine and have a look first. The shifter I'm talking about ::)
Thanks for pointing out the pin is wider at the bottom. I probably wouldn't have noticed that.
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Well I pulled the shifter out this afternoon and found someone has already had a go at fixing it.
Unfortunately as you can see they welded it up to sloppy:
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43868&g2_serialNumber=2)
That wasn't a big deal to fix though. Cut and reweld.
You can see in this picture the shifter pin is warn. This has also been fixed with a touch of weld and a little grind.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43823&g2_serialNumber=2)
Can you tell me if this is the correct location for the shims. I think the shim between the 2 gates is causing to much of a gap:
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43848&g2_serialNumber=2)
The Second/Third gate is still a little loose and I'm wondering if I should add a shim here:
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43838&g2_serialNumber=2)
This is the gates in their closest position. With the play in the second/third gate it does open up a little further which is why I was wondering about the shim between the 2 gates..
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43843&g2_serialNumber=2)
Thanks for you help mate
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Shane
I took another look and mine doesn't have shims between the gates, it just has a washer at shifter end (clearly seen in my pic 5).
I thought I had another (4 speed) to look at for the shim placement, but I don't. From memory though they look to be in the right position on yours, but by all means have a play, things to watch out for is the distance between 1st/reverse and the fence, to close and it will drag/bind.
I think you would be right in putting a shim in between 2nd/3rd and the body (your picture 5)
let us know how you go :)
Warren
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Thanks mate. I might replaced the current shim between the gates with the thinner one, and put the current shim to the out side.
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sounds like a plan Shane.
Once you have that done you just need to ensure that the Gates are correctly alligned by using the threaded adjusters on the shifter links.
Hopefully this will make a huge difference and you will enjoy driving the beddy ;D
Warren
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Thanks mate. I'll make sure those gates are aligned.
Another thing I did notice is the end of the linkages that go to the box were missing washers so they were very loose. I'll make sure I tighten them up also.
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Yep remove as much slack as you can, it all adds up and makes a HUGE difference.
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On an Aussie 4 speed, I once used thin slices of garden hose as the washers/ spacers. It worked 8) 8)
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http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/morley/other-parts-accessories/holden-ej-eh-hr-hd-hk-3-speed-crash-box-specko-floor-shifter/1008363354 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/morley/other-parts-accessories/holden-ej-eh-hr-hd-hk-3-speed-crash-box-specko-floor-shifter/1008363354)
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How does something like that work?
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i thought someone might want it.???
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I meant how do you fit it?
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They bolt to the extn housing of the gearbox
see here:
http://www.speco.com.au/accshifts.html (http://www.speco.com.au/accshifts.html)
Regards
Rhett
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Sorry Rhett but this doesnt look like any of those in your link.
It looks more like a straight shifter, push forward (and pssibley sideways)for first, back for second and then straight forward for third. but Ive not seen how they mount.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43940&g2_serialNumber=2)
Warren
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thats n impala vertical gate shifter 1st is down & back push forward it springs up at neutral then forward for 2nd then straight back for 3rd reverse is down & forward this is all in a straight line . Cheers Merlin
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http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/belmont/engine-engine-parts-transmission/holden-ej-eh-hd-hr-3-speed-floor-shift-conversion/1008111255 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/belmont/engine-engine-parts-transmission/holden-ej-eh-hd-hr-3-speed-floor-shift-conversion/1008111255)
one with instructions