BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Bannana Joe on November 25, 2012, 08:46:01 AM
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Hi all,
Pretty new to the whole Bedford scene..... 3 days and counting ::)
A mate and I have ventured into a partnership with an old CF 350, Banana back car carrier.
The vehicle will have two main duties:
1) Support Vehicle for the Cancer Council's "Shitbox Rally" http://www.shitboxrally.com.au/ (http://www.shitboxrally.com.au/)
This involves traveling approx 10,000klm through some of the most remote parts of OZ each year, and quite often with a car on its back.
2) We will be using it as needed to transport my friends Model T ford around the place, and sometimes interstate.... but not a daily driver.
At present the old girl is fitted with the Old 202 red motor, 3 speed Trimatic and a Ford 9 inch diff (4.11 to 1 ratio) and is presently returning approx 19lt/100klm... or there abouts. It is also fitted with a dual fuel setup, but when on the rally it will be run mostly on Petrol (ULP and Opel fuel) due to the fact that LPG just isn't available out there.
Now because of her primary duties as a Support Vehicle for the Charity Rally, she will need to be ultra reliable and reasonably good on fuel (as it can be a long time between drinks out there)
Preliminary thoughts on what to do with it are:
Option 1) Replace the Old 202 red motor with a slightly modified 3.3/202 Blue motor. Modifications would most likely be a better cam suited for towing etc, up the compression a little and get the 12 port head tickled and suitable for Un-leaded and LPG.
Along with the new donk, we would like to swap the old 3 speed Trimatic for a T700 4 speed auto from a VN/VP commodore, aswell as changing the diff ratio from 4.11/1 to 3.5/1. Buy my calculations this should bring the cruising RPM down from 3000rpm@90kph, to 2000rpm@ 101kph.
Option 2) Put a V8 in it... either an injected 304 or 5.7 LS1 with similar mods to the Blue 6cyl (Heads and cam), and mated to the afore mentioned 4 speed auto.
Both options have their advantages and disadvantages.....
The Holden Blue 6cyl is a simple, basic and reliable proven engine. No real mods needed to fit it in. Conversion kits are readily available to bolt the 4 speed auto on the back of it.
But she is still only a 6cyl and in stock trim is making approx 83kw @ 4000rpm, and 231nm@2400rpm. Not sure what we would get after it has been massaged.
And depending on who you talk to the 6cyl is better on fuel, however some reckon that the 8's are better because they aren't working as hard. ::)
The V8 option will defiantly have more power... but shoe horning one in has it's detraction's, and then there is the whole EFI thing..In my experience, mechanical has always been more reliable... KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid :P).... water crossings are not uncommon on the rally. Not to mention the dust and vibrations on the back roads of the middle of no-where.
Also should they be required, parts for an old Holden 6 are a little easier to come by.
So basically what I after, is some Advice, Tips and your experiences playing with these little beauties.
Cheers Jon
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Welcome Jon
Personally I woul go with option 1 with one more inclusion, more gas tanks, and larger gas tanks :)
Warren
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At the momment, that is kinda the direction I'm leaning towards.
But am still open to suggestions.
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I'm doing the 5l injected conversion at the moment, almost finished. I don't know where you are but if you are in Sydney you are welcome to have a look and see how I did it.
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;D
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holden 3.8 out of commodore vn - ... comes with a 4 speed auto
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said it once i'll say it again ......if you wanna rev run a CHEV ,ya cant beat the small block chev for fitting in a Beddy its the most compact ya get more bang for ya buck (more parts available) T,350,400 &700 trannies bolt straight up and they fit in the same place as ya ole six banger !!!!! and they're old school so easy to maintain .........Im right arn't i?? huh huh ya know i am ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D Cheers Merlin
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Jon,
welcome to the Beddie adventure.
I have a CF car carrier and offer the following comments :
1) Use what you have already got!
A red/blue 6 cyl with a freshen up will go forever. If you are going out bush and do happen to break something, a trip to the nearest tip will provide the part you need.
Already have gas, add another tank. Then when you leave the city use the gas until it runs out and then go to petrol. Maybe add another std fuel tank as well. ( It would not be hard to get a range of + 1000km with 2 gas and 2 petrol tanks)
2) Auto - Freshen up the trimatic (cheap) and invest in a towing convertor and a B&M type shifter
(STD shifter not good on rough roads, can jump out of gear)
Also not electronics to rattle on rough roads.
3) Diff - drop the ratio for hiway cruising but Brace the 9" so the axle tubes don't bend or break on rough roads with a load on.
I would also add a winch to the tray to make loading a breeze and safer. (the one I fitted cost $500 for a 12000lb winch with wireless remotes)
This is some pictures of my carcarrier in the gallery
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=8&g2_itemId=42671 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=8&g2_itemId=42671)
hope this is useful.
Rhett
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The 6 are great, BUT, if you plan on having a car on the back and a trailor as well. It has to be an 8, a small 8. With an 8, you won't have to work the motor as hard, you'll have more torque to handle the load and if you set it up right, great fuel for your buck.
There is a turbo200r4h, its a mechanical overdrive an not electric, there good for 650hp, and they chew less hp from motor, and wheigh less.
Your choise so good luck, but remember to build it once, cos it can get lonly out there ::) ;D ;D
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personally i wouldnt dream of putting a 6 in it.. your gunna be hauling some weight!! im sick to death of driving slow cause got to nurse the 6 along. personally id go a steel holden v8 or a chev. but as your finding everyones got a different opinion.
with more torque you can drop the diff ratio and tick along where the 6 would be working harder all the time!
ben
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chev it , same simplicity as a red six with the extra two cylinders, easy to fit , reliable parts...... do i need to go on? KISS
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after some tooing and froing...... We are leaning towards an LS1 at the moment.
but nothing set in stone as yet.........
But thanks to everyone that has contributed, it is all very much appreciated and I'm quite happy to continue to hear you thoughts on theuit these puppies subject.
Also, is there an easy to fit Power steer rack option out there that will suit these puppies?
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is the ls1 (as in the vt -vz commodore) all alloy block the same size as the older small block chevs ?
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That I don't know...yet. But I do have access to a couple that I can measure up and suss out.
Is the LS conversion in a CF, something that has been done before? I would be surprised if it hasn't ....as it would probably be the only vehicle on the planet that hasn't had one shoe horned into it :D
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Some one is shoe horning one into a 4x4 Beddie...search the forum.but not much info so far