BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Cellardoor on September 10, 2012, 10:43:13 PM
-
Hi
I have had my Beddie Cf 75' for about 3 months now, very happy. I'm 21, not a mechanic, but relatively capable with some fixes, and keen to repair most Beddie jobs myself.
I found the van pulling slightly to the left when braking, took the rear drums off and found a slow leak onto one of the left shoes.
It seems to be coming from the centre below the axle/spindle, definitely not brake fluid I think. Not losing fluid. I'm guessing it's a rear axle seal??
Is this a common issue? I have the Beddie manual and will investigate but I thought I would throw it at you guys first as this forum seems unreal, pic attached [the photo is turned 90 degrees anti-clockwise, the shiny bit above the springs in the center is actually small amount of fluid. There is a build up of crud at the base of the drum (but right on the photo)]
I'll replace with new drums both sides, and get someone to check the job for safety but first off;
Has anyone got some hints or words of advice for axle seal replacement? and do I need a special tool to get the center cap/nut off.
Any help appreciated, cheers, Tom
-
Hey mate, if you're getting fluid into the inside of the drum it means 2 things.
Your axle seal is failing, and the drain hole on the backing plate is blocked.
To change the seal requires the bearing being pulled off with a shop press. As a temporary fix, you can remove the entire backing plate by rotating that hole in the axle to line up with each bolt, and remove everything (can keep the brakes all assembled).
Once removed scrape the back of the backing plate, and the axle housing clean, and ensure there is no silicon on there, as alot of people seem to think the silicon helps. All the silicon does is keep your drive way clean, and forces the oil into your brakes. Once the brake linings have diff oil in them, they need to be burnt out with oxy or similar, tho i highly recommend new brake linings. the drums themselves should be fine if cleaned up with petrol or the like.
-
I'm not sure about there but you can't get the seals here in NZ
If the seal is ok (not damaged) you can shorten the spring inside the seal, as they stretch with the heat.
The spring is screwed into itself, so unscrew it, cut a little bit off (10mm max), screw it back in, reassemble and you should be good to go
-
A 'shop press' to get at the seal etc... bummer... looks like a mechanic job. Thanks for the input, I'll check it out some more and report back
cheers
-
not at all, (unless you need new bearings/seals then just find someone to press these on and off for you) DO GET MORE THAN ONE QUOTE! i was quoted from $ 150@ axle to $50.00, it only should only take them 30 min to do.
to remove axles, as Matte said, rotate axle to get to mounting plate bolts, then turn your brake drum around,refit loosely (with a good amount of thread) and use like a slide hammer. Axle should adventually pop out towards you.
just a caution note as a good friend of ours did this and fell backwards onto his tailbone damaging his back...it's not too difficult a job cellardoor so you should be ok, good luck!
-
hey, thanks mate. Getting onto it this weekend.
-
these must be holden brakes are they cause on a bedford diff the oil seal is a simple O ring on the roller bearing.
ben
-
ben they have a seal on the side of the bearing as well, thats where the spring is
-
oh i remember of course. thats to seal it against the axel. the one i was refering to is to seal it against the diff housing. if the axel seal is gone then youd have to asume the bearing is pretty bad also yeh?
ben
-
the front brakes have been converted to holden disks, I thought the rear drums were still original. Anyway, going through the manual now... any alternatives to a slide hammer?
-
after you have loosened and removed the 4 nuts that hold the axel in place
put the wheel cylinders back on and some of the nuts back on the wheel studs...and slide the wheel cylinder back n forth
should be enuff to loosen the axel...
-
put the wheel cylinders back on and some of the nuts back on the wheel studs...and slide the wheel cylinder back n forth
i think marky means the brake drums.. put the brake drum on backward and slide back n forth..
they can be very stubborn,
if that doesnt work get an old rim that you dont care about and bolt it to the wheel then hit that back of it with a sledge hammer. work your way around the wheel... and you should be able to get almost any axel out. lve only ever had 1 and the van was extremely rusty! i left it in there..
ben
-
yep..thats what i meant ben..lol ::) 8)
-
quote from ben .... lve only ever had 1 and the van was extremely rusty! i left it in there..
ben
[/quote] "WE" left it in benny ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
ben they have a seal on the side of the bearing as well, thats where the spring is
an uneasy expression has momentarily come over my usual cool, calm composure.... are u guys saying there should be a rubber, spring inserted ,oil seal between the axle backing plate and the bearing itself ??? ??? from mem i thought the outer bearing side was a sealed bearing ??? ??? ??? or is that seal actually inserted inbetween tha inner an outer racers in the bearing itself ??? ???
-
Gee, I'm lost here, just about to put mine back together, only seal I was aware of the the "O" ring on the bearing? Is any sealer needed between these flanges.
-
quote from ben .... lve only ever had 1 and the van was extremely rusty! i left it in there..
ben
"WE" left it in benny Grin Grin Grin Wink[/quote]
oh skip i forgot about that one! that makes only 2 times not being able to get them out!
bas in your 4th pic if you are looking at the bearing from the opposite direction you will notice there is a seal incorperated into the bearing itself to seal the bearing to the axel so the oil from the diff doesnt spew out.
cheers ben
-
Ok will put mine back together as is and see what happens, might leave the old shoes on just incase, easy to change later............. Cheers
-
OK, the axle came out easy! The advice has been spot on!
What I found (pics attached);
- There seemed to be a fair bit of gunk, greasy dirt buildup, where the bearing sits. The gunk had small hard bits (metal, road gunk??). I'm not sure whether it was deposited there as I pulled the axle out, I don't think so as the seal was pretty clean.
- The 'inner' seal (at the arrowhead in pic1) looked fine.
- Bearing spun fine, not crunchy, quite smooth.
So, not knowing what to replace... is it common to;
- just replace the seal (arrowhead in pic 1)
- take axle to mechanic to replace the bearing and it's seal (pic2)
Also, should I do both axles whilst I have it up? The other is not leaking.
As always, appreciate the help, I'm enjoying this.... I'll move on to a number of easier jobs on the beddie whilst awaiting the next move.
cheers
Tom
-
Ok, what seal is that with the arrow to it, look at first pic above in my photos, that's all I have, there was no seal in there on 9' OR 10' diff ?????????????????????? should I be worried..............
-
ok ,well done (bit by bit). Do I replace the lot or what's needed you ask?
is your van a keeper?
did it hum or make any warb warbwarbwarb noises?
are you running 10' wide rims?
well then I would , but
if cash is tight/useable elsewhere
no noises
no big rims , well then no need + if any thing does creep up in the near future you know what to do! DA DAAAA.....
well done cobb ..... enjoy, oh why not suck the old oil out of your diff, and or don't forget to top it up.......till it just weeps out of the filler grub screw/bolt. should be a 1/2" drive....Dano
-
in pic1 it's a black seal about a 1 cm wide, probably 3/4 of it is on metal then it extends a bit into the void, towards diff. I didn't want to damage it but it was quite easier to grab the inside lip and pull to the outside, it seemed to like it would peel off OK.
I can't see any damage anywhere, resulting in a leak. I might visit a shop and give them the axle to squizz.
Can't help you I'm afraid, my beddie has holden front discs, transmission, & engine... I'm guessing the rear axle/drums are original??
-
I'd check to see if that ain't a Holden diff as well, that backing plate looks like a salisbury, I'm not sure what the cfs's looks like
-
That Backing plate does not look like 9" bedford 9' in the first photo, and your bearing is not Bedford, no O ring
-
Brakes look ford to me, what's ur stud pattern?
11" ford galaxie brakes.
-
Yep, Cheers Dano
-
here's mine;
-
Have just dropped my diff and removed an axle and mine is exactly the as Baz
only external seal is the big O ring on the outside of the bearing and my beddy brakes look nothing like your photo
-
here's mine;
Ok this is a 10" drum, going by the setup but has a few little extra bits in there on the ajustment etc., that is if it is standard Bedford. I took the 9" apart, and wasen't sure if all was right, then pulled the 10" apart and the only seal is the O ring on the bearing, so as they are both the same, I am happy that all is right.............
-
looks like my Diff...or at least the axles n brakes do..Holden..
-
I've been searching for ages in an attempt to identify what's actually on the beddie, as I want to remove parts correctly (mainly the seal).
I definitely have a borg-warner 9 bolt diff, (image attached).
Seems the rear brakes are from a Ford Falcon.
Sorry this is dragging on, had hoped to have it wrapped up...my main problem is removing the 'retainer seal' or whatever it's called. So the axle and bearing are out, that's fine. It's just the seal is attached to a metal 'retainer' (orange'y coloured metal at arrow in the image attached), I saw on another site a guy removing such a retainer/seal by sticking a lever inside the retainer and forcing it out. I tried pulling the seal out and ripped it slightly.
I'm really hesitant on levering/forcing this off until I know it's the right way to do it.
Thanks guys.
-
Hi Tom, As the seal is ripped, it's now useless so you have nothing to lose.
The seal, which includes the brownish metal ring outside the rubber, is pressed or tapped into place.
If you can't lever it out, hammer a screwdriver between this ring and the axle housing, trying not to damage the housing.
The seal will buckle inwards and you can then lever it out with the screwdriver....easy.
If you have a Holden or Ford diff then I suspect new seals would be easy to locate.
-
thanks for that Jeff, got it out.... to the parts store!
-
To wrap this axle/seal post up;
Bought the seal for $5 wacked it in, difficult but it's in there. Bearings are good but need a grease. Axle back in, new shoes...
Decided to drain the diff oil and found water in there. Creamy soup. This is not a four wheel drive, how dd that get in there?? I'm going to read up on this and start a new thread if problems come about.
Cheers to all the replies, much appreciated and no way I could have done it without your help
tom
-
Water could be from condensation or really thin oil
If it is water check your gears aren't pitted, if they are they will be noisey (will give a wheel bearing type noise), they will be ok to use, just will be noisey
-
The white, could also just be from Moisture build up, have seen this before.............