BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: willo on March 08, 2012, 01:53:56 PM
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I am still getting the 202 to run correctly but the thing dies so much on a hill that it is embarrassing. It's getting OK on the flat but revving very high (and downhill with a tailwind for that matter) ;D ;D but really slow up a hill. This is with the 5.22 diff in it too. I guess the 202 just wasn't meant to pull 3 tonne over some of the hills around here.
I thought about the 4 speed auto behind the 202 to overcome the high revving and this would have worked well. I even started to gather the bits and pieces. Then i found out that I would need to cut the floor to fit the box. Not doing that and still have something that dies on hills. The TH700 would be fine in a van but not a 3tonne motorhome. A cut is a cut is a cut. If I'm gonna cut the floor etc then it is for a V6 or V8.
Next phase begins... ???
I can get a good VT v6 and auto at the right price. Spoke to Pat Gardiner at Moree about the conversion and he said he has done heaps of them and has developed a DIY kit to do the job. I wil be doing it myself if I do end up doing this transplant.
I know there is no substitute for cubic inches but I also reckon that a 3.8 V6 would be OK.
Another advantage is that the V6 is close to the 202 in weight. One more thing I have to consider what with a big fibreglass double bed over the cab already ::) ::)
Has anyone:
a) got a V6 auto in a Beddie?
b) Still running the 5.22 diff? and if so tell me a bit about how it goes and fuel economy please.
c) had dealings with the mob at Moree and their products? he sounded OK on the phone and gave me time and I felt he knew his stuff.
What do you reckon folks? I'd love to hear your views and experiences please.
Give me some advice and if i do it i'll run a diary of my experiences for you to access in the future if you end up going down this path yourself.
Neil
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Run a 3.8 v6 in my Black Beddie, Duel wheels and 5.2 standard rear end, you will need a Shift kit in the TH700 other wise the motor tends to rev a bit, gear change can be contolled by adjusting the TV cable, but shit kit is still a must. 5.2 will give more then enough low down power and due to the 4th gear (overdrive) your top end is ok aswell, mine does 140km + but to be honest a higher diff no taller than 3.5 would be better for fuel use. Bas
Yes, they say the VN - VP is the better one to use.
Link to George's Gallery on his V6 swap.
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=21&g2_itemId=20163 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=21&g2_itemId=20163)
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i think george has bought off that mob in moree.
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My standard CF has the VN V6, I towed the custom van down to the van nationals last year. It towed it well until the end when the trans got hot and lost overdrive (it came back when it cooled down). Have been told since these trans's are not meant for towing.
Van gave no hint it was struggling as it cruised along nicely and didn't even feel much of the trailer. The engine ran cold towing it.
Not sure how much weight I was towing, custom van is all steel and the trailer alone was over 700kg
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Yea, they say if used for towing, you need to beef them up, but David, you must of had a bit of weight behind the van, not your normal tow job....... ;)
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yeah but standard bedford is about 1200kg, Neil's camper is over double
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I'm not running the tall gears in mine (only 3:45.1) but am thinking about getting a chip for it as it's not the cheapest thing to run
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Ok, yes the factory setting of the chip is not the best I have been told worth a look into. Or LPG.....
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yeah but standard bedford is about 1200kg, Neil's camper is over double
The only reason they overheat is because of the overlap of the shift, this is factory set and dose more damange to the auto than good, that's why a Shift kit is a must it cuts down this shift overlap and as a result the box runs at a much lower tempture... So a shift kit and a servo piston kit upgrade is the go.
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any idea of price for the upgrade?
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shift kit wont help much when cruising in top gear down the highway, tho is a great idea for around town. If its running hot get a bigger trans cooler and better fluids.
The T700 is known for being weak in regards to towing in top gear, technically when towing you are meant to drop it into 3rd to reduce the strain on the box. However if you get the box built to suit towing (or weight and wind resistance) it should be fine.
Was someone saying recently the V6 hole in the floor is larger than that needed for a 350chev? or am i merging two threads together in my head?
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any idea of price for the upgrade?
Check out B&M (USA) on the net mine came from them comes with 2 kits stage 1 RV /Heavy Duty Stage 2 Street / Strip, The Servo unit is from a corvette 146e? something like that fits the TH700, MaTTe I am sure you are right, they do say that the fluid used is very important, as this will help in cooling the AUTO, also as you stated a stand alone oil cooler, and the end of the day the cooler the auto runs the better the performance and life of the auto. David think it cost around the $200.00 mark all up for both units, you can fit it yourself. They say with stage 1 the trans will run 30% cooler while towing, they also talk about (man) shifting it while towing to 3rd when a lot of pressure is put on the box, eg. step grades etc.
Also David, the TH700 have all done high k's, a rebuilt unit i feel may not have failed with the towing, and yes heard a story awhile ago of a guy that feed his pipes though a alloy tube the went to the front of the van grill area that feed the wind / air down the tube to cool the oil lines down, testing showed after a run the trans oil temp had droped by 20%, worth a thorght, we do it for our induction intake?
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My trans is auto overdrive, haven't the option to take it out unless you kick down (pump the gas pedal) or drop to 2nd.
I have a large external trans cooler mounted in the front and use good fluid
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My trans is auto overdrive, haven't the option to take it out unless you kick down (pump the gas pedal) or drop to 2nd.
I have a large external trans cooler mounted in the front and use good fluid
Large is good, but an Efficient one is even better ;) well so I'll been told.
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G,day unsure what box to use would anyone recommend the T5 man or should i go auto behind a V6
would love to hear (read) your thoughts.
Cheers Phil
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Hay love a 4-5 speed box, great behind a 202, but once you hit the v6 - v8 they become a little jerkie, an auto gives a smooth ride, and where to you fit the extra peddle ???
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Well, tis done. Decision made and now i am waiting on a call from the engineer about what steps I need to take for registration in NSW.
I am going to put in a Ecotec V6 and 4 speed auto instead of the current red 202 and Trimatic.
Rego is up in june so i will register it as the original 202 and that will give me another 12 months to gather my bits and pieces and advice from the experts and do the swap sometime after that.
Thank you to all who responded and provided advice and comments.
I will keep some sort of spreadsheet of the bits and pieces that I purchase and photos etc to help out anyone in the future if they go down this path. (Not that I am going to get it right but the photos will help you to see where i made my mistakes. ;D ;D ;D
So, if anyone wants a couple of strong blue 3.3 motors (never run them myself but i was told what is in them), manifold and webber, new Crow Torque camshaft and alloy timing gear, TH700 cable auto and dellow adapter, etc etc etc PM me and we'll talk more. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Cheers
Neil
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An auto alot of people don't know about is the turbo 200r4h, they are a mechanical overdrive, not electronic. they are smaller than the 700, but with a kit through them, they are good for 650 horses, great for lighter cars when power to weight is an issue or when you want to stay away from computers. A mate has one in a GMC 58 pick up, with a 350 chev that is mild. He does a shit load of towing and dosn't have any drama
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Not to sure about the ecotec motor, alot more work involed on the elec side, motor and auto........
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There is a company in street machine magazine that specializes in v6 conversions, they sell the whole kit and instructions. Pretty sure they had a photo of a ecotec in a Bedford from memory, if I find the add again I will put the number up for you mate.
Also good choice on the ecotec mate, they are pretty torquey for a 6 and have to say very reliable. We have a vt s pack 5 speed manual and just clicked over 315 000 k's and still tows my 19 and a half foot boat like a champion, so should be perfect for your motor home.
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VN -VP S1, S2 have more torque, I think you will find.......... but ecotec nice motor
Ecotec v6 l youtube-
bedford van THE SHRED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwrJq7i5-M#)
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G'day
I looked at the V6 conversion and decided against the Ecotec.
It is a slightly smaller and lighter motor and has "13%" more power but...
It runs hotter (which means more radiant heat into the cab),
Has oil feed blockage problems ( I found out the hard way)
Costs more for the conversion ( although I did see a HQ converted to an Ecotec using VN EFI bits)
The manual version is a dual plate balanced clutch that is very costly to replace.
The auto version is electronic and is expensive to set up.
I wanted a "good" secondhand Ecotec motor and had to buy 3 (and install them) before I got an actual good one.
Have a look at how many VS, VT, etc, are sitting around with minor (but expensive) mechanical problems.
The VP S2 or VR would be my choice with a VN non-electronic auto or supra 5 speed conversion.
However for my next V6 conversion I am going to use a 4.2L V8 Range Rover motor. It is basically the same Buick motor anyway, just with 2 extra cylinders. It is available in sizes from 3.5L to 5.0L, EFI or carby, and you don't have to muck around with sumps etc.
I would recommend spending a couple of evenings reading some of the forums that specialise on V6 conversions and Commodores in general.
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range rovers are agreat motor, and a conversion you don't see any more. The one l used once was the 4.4 out of a p76, they are a light v8, a thing l remember is they loved the petrol, :o
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range rovers are agreat motor, and a conversion you don't see any more. The one l used once was the 4.4 out of a p76, they are a light v8, a thing l remember is they loved the petrol, :o
I have a few P76 motors. Even have a dead CFS with a P76 still in it. With a good cam, ignition, and carby the P76 is very economical. The main problem is that it is 40 year old technology and while it can be rebuilt and modified it is still old. I just bought a RR Classic with a reco Vitesse motor run by a Motec. There was receipts for over $14,000 spent in the last 3 years. Bought for $500. It will make an excellent donor if I can get past the new NSW laws.
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A bit of trivia, Motec comes from The Patch jn Victoria, His own car and his test bed in the late 80's was a xd with a stroked 460, running 12.5 to 1 pistons and it didn't ping on pump fuel. A major effort even today. He does a adustable unit to suit almost anythung. If I remember right, his name was Burton.
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Rossie, that is impressive, although to be fair, we used to run(before being restricted to lower levels) 12.1:1 on BP Ultimate 98 on our 202s in the race cars, single stromberg and all ;)
That being said a 460 at 12.5:1 would be great fun with the precision of engine management!
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that it was, and there was no ultera super then, just straight super or unleaded (showing me age)
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rossie, didnt the super perform to the same standard as 98 due to the lead? either way it was an engineering feat!
Now i'm not sure of the difference and convertability of a v8 to v6 t700, however i have just found this ad which might well be appealing to someone.. I dont know the seller or the box by the way..
FS WA T700 gearbox WORKED NEAR NEW
Hey guys have a near new T700 gearbox for sale..
Its originally out of a VP SS.
Has been fully rebuilt approx -500kms ago with only run in driving..
Customs stage two shift kitted T700 gearbox with corvette servo, Zpack clutches (the beast),Heavy Duty Kevlar Bands
Decided to go down the manual route.
Built to handle big power!!
$2000
Seb
0403973897
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stage two shift kitted T700 gearbox with corvette servo,
Same gear as mine has in it...........