BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: willo on November 25, 2011, 02:00:46 PM
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Hi all,
in all these discussions about motors and diff ratios etc, has anyone put a 4speed auto out of a VN or VP commodore into their Beddy? I'm wondering if it is a good thing or a bad thing to try. My camper is a trimatic and I like the auto thing in it. A 4 speed would give me an electric overdrive that i could control with a switch on the dash (maybe).
Thanks
Neil
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I run it in mine with a 4.1 diff, sweet as.
Overdive is not electric
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=8&g2_itemId=31598 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=8&g2_itemId=31598)
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Thanks mate. I see that you also have a v6 in it as well. How's that go?
I am thinking of putting the TH700 behind a blue 3.3. Transport in NSW is making it harder and harder to do engine transplants. My diff is 5.22 and an o/drive would help heaps. It is 3 ton so the 5.22 diff isn't much of a problem. It'd be nice to drop the revs in top gear to cruise better at 90kph.
I am not sure if it is possible but I was reading somewhere that the lock up torque convertor is activated by a switch on the side of the box and that this can be overridden/activated by a toggle switch instead of the gearbox switch. If so, and it is strong enough then i'm interested.
Cheers
Neil
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Hey Willo page 23 of my Camper Update posts there's a photo of my binlaw's 202 with TH 700 you will need an adaptor plate to bolt them togeather You cant use the lockup converter unless you use the computer but they usually leave it unlocked It is not a cheap conversion a diff change would be a far cheaper way to go
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By the way an Overdrive will only take about 800 to 1000 reves off at 100 ks
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I have a308 turbo pattern, th7oo box with lock up that works to holden standard. i.e. locks up when conditions are right(steady speed, even load etc) but unlocks on hills, under load. all vn-vp boxes can be run this way with a simple conversion,no computer used.
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By the way an Overdrive will only take about 800 to 1000 reves off at 100 ks
The final ratio of the TH700 is .7 instead of the 1:1 currently in the trimatic. About 30%. So if I am doing 3300 in top gear because of the diff ratio then this would be about 2300 or so at the same speed so that would probably be OK.
Problem with changing the diff is that I would be underpowered at initial take off with only the 202. The old girl is 3 ton plus all my junk in it. I'm also nervous about getting the diff ratio just right because I only get one shot at getting it right. Too expensive to change again.
It is gonna be costly either way I go but I am thinking if I keep the 202 (or blue 3.3) then I need to play with the gearbox first.
I'd love to put a 5l v8 in it but I think with the current changes to engineering rules in NSW I probably would not get a new conversion passed.
Neil
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Hi Neil....Geez 3 ton ,thats a fair load on the old red motor. :-\ With regards to the diff ratio, i have 3 commodores here 2 vps 1 vn and they are all running 3.08 diffs. Hooked up to the v6 they all can pull and tow a fair amount, and i used to have a LJ gtr torana that ran a 186 4 speed with a 3.08 diff in that. I am no expert when it comes to diff ratios but this 3.08 seemed to be the best for off the line and top end cruzing,i only wish my truck had the same as its a real slug off the mark. ;D
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,i only wish my truck had the same as its a real slug off the mark. Grin
may have something to do with the 173 johno lol
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oooooHHHHH FEEL THE POWER BENNY ;D ;D ;D :D :D
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I drove Griff's 350 Lwb a while back on a cruise, th700,was awsome and every time i get on the F.way I wish Borrie had a th700 instead of th350, mind you by this stage I'm easily sitting on the tonne+ ;)
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can you fit turbo 700 to a red 6 ????
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Yes with an adaptor
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you can get the adaptor from a company in Aussie, someone posted a link on here before, remember checking it out..........
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Castlemain rod shop in VIC
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Try Dellows conversions in sydney too.....they make some amazing stuff....can connect up just about anything To anything...
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Try Dellows conversions in sydney too.....they make some amazing stuff....can connect up just about anything To anything...
I just bought a convertor plate from dellow on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-6-CYLINDER-HOLDEN-COMMODORE-VN-V6-TH-700-R-AUTO-ADAPTOR-PLATE-KIT-/250943207675?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6d6178fb (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-6-CYLINDER-HOLDEN-COMMODORE-VN-V6-TH-700-R-AUTO-ADAPTOR-PLATE-KIT-/250943207675?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a6d6178fb)
Good product by the look of it. I'll have to save up for the auto :-\
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thats a lot of money for 15mm plate..
can you make a template and sell one to me..
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you can get the adaptor from a company in Aussie, someone posted a link on here before, remember checking it out..........
Quote from: ben on September 02, 2011, 09:25:20 AM
was that new or second hand Banksx2?
also are you interested in getting it copied?
and which way does it adapt?
cheers
ben
Brand new.
Haven't fitted it yet but it looks to just bolt in using offset bolts (see photo at link below)
At the advertised price it's probably not worth the hassle of copying - there's a fair bit of machining involved for the different bits. The offset bolts would need a CNC lathe to do them in any quantity and the adapter plate has to be milled flat.
http://shop.ebay.com.au/items/_W0QQ_sopZ12?_nkw=turbo%20350%20adapter&_fromfsb=0&_trksid=m270.l1313 (http://shop.ebay.com.au/items/_W0QQ_sopZ12?_nkw=turbo%20350%20adapter&_fromfsb=0&_trksid=m270.l1313)
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i can get access to a plasma. a mate can cut for me..
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i can get access to a plasma. a mate can cut for me..
I unpacked it and had a look and I reckon it is a fair price for what it is. Countersunk bolts and a lot of machining within machining. I had a look at the cheaper one on ebay and it looks totally different to the one that Dellow does. I'm not saying that the cheaper one won't fit it's just that I don't want problems when i am driving along and the Dellow kit includes everything to do the job including the brass spigot bush for the conversion.
Cheers
Neil
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How's the conversion coming along Neil?
I'm keen to explore an upgrade from the Aussie 4 speed.
I've got similar issues to you , 85 kph @ 3,000 rpm screaming her head off.
Running 4.1:1 diff.
I'm tossing up 5 sp celica manual conversion
Or 4 or 5 speed Auto.
Cheers
Ian
Ian
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How's the conversion coming along Neil?
I'm keen to explore an upgrade from the Aussie 4 speed.
I've got similar issues to you , 85 kph @ 3,000 rpm screaming her head off.
Running 4.1:1 diff.
I'm tossing up 5 sp celica manual conversion
Or 4 or 5 speed Auto.
Cheers
Ian
Hi Ian,
so far, have gathered a 2nd hand TH700 that I am planning to trial fit to see if it works OK. (The man said it worked fine-honest ::) ::)
I have gathered the dellow adaptor kit.
I know that I will need a front tailshaft section and get it cut down as the TH700 is longer that the Trimatic.
I know that I will need a new speedo cable. I think Wrights clutch service in Lismore do these but i am yet to confirm this.
I know that I will need a speedo ratio adjustment box thingy to get the speedo reading correctly. Castlemaine Rod Shop.
I know that I will need a gear linkage crossunder shaft to get the gear linkage from teh right on the Trimatic to the left on the TH700. Heading to Wreckers and searching for a falcon XA-XE BW35 gearbox with 3 on the tree lever that i can get the crossunder gear linkage set up off so i can fit it to the TH700.
Still a long way before fitting it but the path is becoming clearer as i gather the bits and bobs.
Ian, are you running a 4.1 diff? Mate, mine is 5.2!!!!
I reckon that we should catch up and talk about our respective campers. We are only 2 hours apart (make that 2.75 hours in a high revving Beddie :D :D :D
Neil
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Sounds like your getting it all Sused out which is a good
Idea to have done all the prep first so hopefully no hidden
Unexpected roadblocks.
Yep the old girl has a 4.1 diff in her so she's good of the mark but
Runs out of breath at 85 kph :-\ you know the the story.
I have a project we are working on in Alstonville getting a new radio
Service established on AM 1647 so I very well might take the beddy
For a run down that way , if I do I will be sure to giive you a hoy.
In the mean time I'm still researching myself.
My biggest concern is avoiding the RTA as I'm sure they will find extra things
To fuss over if I have go get a certificate if I upgrade to a 5 speed manual or
Auto.
Cheers
Ian
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I've searched on this site and old Holden but haven't found a step by step
Paint by numbers article on how to convert from the M20 Aussie four speed
Manual box over to say a TH700 or a 6 speed auto out of a modern commodore.
Do I need a special modification to the radiator or a different radiator to cool the
Auto transmission oil ?
Has anyone done a conversion like that a beddyt?
Most articles in the various forums are from Auto to manual,
Very few it seems go the other way.
Cheers
Ian
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one thing no one has mentioned is that the floor will need to be cut around the back of the head as the th700 is much taller box which will mean your engine cover will need to be modified to suit.
After doing the conversion I worked out the hard way that the original thin steel plate between the engine and box cant be used as the adaptor caused it to twist and hit the torque converter bolts.
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H,mmm you're right I haven't seen that little detail ::)
anything else we need to consider?
Like I'm considering upgrading from a 4 speed -Aussie box
Mainly cause I want overdrive when cruising on the hiway.
And want to drop the revs down to something more appropriate
And ...hopefully get say...( fingerscrossed ) 100kph out of her.
Whereas with a 5 speed Celica manual box W58 I get a 5th gear
Of around .7 which is roughly 30% overdrive.
So will the TH700 (the non electric version out of a VN ) or even a 350 or a T400
Give me the desired out come?
Any help appreciated as I deliberate which way to go.
Cheers
Ian
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Depending on how much you cut the floor out your the standard dipstick may or may not fit, I cut as minimal as possible so I used an aftermarket flexible tube (Lokar makes them). But then you need make a bracket for it to mount as normally you would attach to firewall in most cars.
There is a bit of playing around with the rear cross member and engine mount.
For the shifter I think the easiest option would be a cable type shifter something like a B and M or Hurst. But each to there own, I modified a standard shifter by adding a bracket and cable to it but never did get it spot on
You will need to cut some of the bell housing out on the TH 700 where the starter motor fits.
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Gee that's a bit of mucking around
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Depending on how much you cut the floor out your the standard dipstick may or may not fit, I cut as minimal as possible so I used an aftermarket flexible tube (Lokar makes them). But then you need make a bracket for it to mount as normally you would attach to firewall in most cars.
There is a bit of playing around with the rear cross member and engine mount.
For the shifter I think the easiest option would be a cable type shifter something like a B and M or Hurst. But each to there own, I modified a standard shifter by adding a bracket and cable to it but never did get it spot on
You will need to cut some of the bell housing out on the TH 700 where the starter motor fits.
Oh that's not good. I was getting all excited about no cutting of the floor. Thanks for the heads up. I need to ponder some more. Might be that a manual like Ian is talking about is a better way to go. At least there will be no floor cutting but then again I would have all the fiddling around getting the manual gear linkages to poke through the floor in the right spot. I figure that if i am forced to cut the floor i am going to put in a 5litre and box. Make the whole job worthwhile. I just wanted to change some bits that i thought would be easy bolt in conversions. You'd think i'd know better after working on this thing since 1998.
Thanks again. I will ponder my options :'(