BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: jimsvan on February 09, 2010, 10:00:46 PM
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hi to all bedford owners/ lovers im trying to find out a good power steer setup for lwb bedford van thats on v8 does anyone on here have a setup and is it any good ive heard stories that u can use porshce and transit and leylands
im unsure what to go for or where to start i need someone that has a v8 setup and can show me some pics and how they went about it please help as i want a power steer setup in my van when i do my v8conversion
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Welcome Jim
There are a few threads on here about it, but not any "how to's" at the moment, someone (ant remeber who) is currently in the proccess of doing it and promising a how2 with pictures, in the mean time use the search function :D
Warren
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Have a look at the response from Beddycrazy in your other Power steering thread (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1765.msg16683;topicseen#new)
Warren
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http://www.bedford-cf.co.uk/powersteering.htm (http://www.bedford-cf.co.uk/powersteering.htm)
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http://www.bedford-cf.co.uk/powersteering.htm (http://www.bedford-cf.co.uk/powersteering.htm)
It looks like quite a good conversion but unfortunately it's a bit short on photos and key information such as which year and model the Transit rack was from. Some closeups of his mounting brackets would have been really good.
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I agree that it could be more detailed, however the basics are there enough to know that it can be done. I have been told that the rack is from a 1997 model.
His email address is an old one, but may still work, and wouldn't be there if he didn't want it known.
I am assuming that any P/S pump would work.
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Might flick him an email and see if he can clarify a few things.
According to Bas there are 2 different racks for that era of van although we don't know what the differences were and whether they would be relevant anyway.
The pump doesn't bother me as the V6 has one as standard equipment.
I quite liked Garry's with the LHD 928 however they aren't exactly plentiful and the only place local is based in Levin. I like the idea of the Transit as they are quite common and they are even appearing up at Pick-A-Part so parts and the rack should be relatively cheap.
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Hi Rogue, I used a 97-98 transit in my van, I paid about $500 for my rack, and found that the coupling shaft lined up 100%, angle was perfect. I am going V6 not V8. Correct me if I'm wrong, did blackbeddy fit a transit rack to his V8 ? The transit bolts up just like the beddy rack, front mount, but at a 45degree angle. Mine bolted up in a day, with the fabrication of a new bracket. The reason I have not posted pics and other info, is because I have not had my engineer approve it yet, and dont want to pass on wrong info if he asks me to change something. I do have a LOT of picks showing every step.
Regards
George...........Glad to hear your getting better ben, just keep your hands off the nurses...lol ;D ;D
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That would be brilliant thanks George.
You could be pioneering the way for lots of us.
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yeh im thinking about going transit might chat to black beddy and see how his is just a quick one tho do you think el and ef power steer racks would fit or not
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does the transit ones do u get full steer
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Yes the Transit is a straight fit, and you lose about 2" of turning each way, but in the end this is BUGA all, contact him though his personal web site on him and his family, both racks fit the same from wat I have been told. Sorry I to have no photo's as mine is out at the moment so I can get a wof as it's been of the road for a while. I had brackets made up that bolt the onto the rack and the old Beford mounts, but once on for good will weld the mounts on to the Bedford.
Tire rods need to be cut down by 2" and change the link set up but very straight forward.
All in all avery good rack and fit, and cheap to buy!!!!!!
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G'day
After trying the P76 and the Transit setups I consider the Transit a better setup. The loss of turning circle is noticeable but not a real problem. I anyone wants to try them call in, I'm only 5km out of Brocklehurst.
I was told recently that a Ford Territory power rack can be made to fit a CF.
Regards
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Hey Jim,
I have a Porsche steering rack in my CFL running a 350 Chev. Been in for about 5 years now I guess and is running fine. Here's a post from the old website about it that might help. I'll add the pics to the end.
As some of you already know, I have a 928 left hand drive Porsche steering rack fitted to my LWB, driven by a std 350 chev power steering pump. The pump is fitted in the stock position on the left hand side of the block. The LH drive unit is used to provide an easy fit to the CF as it needs to go in front of the cross member. Most car racks fit to the rear of the cross member. With the LH drive unit you just rotate it end for end and fit it up.
The Porsche also has a long throw, much like the CF rack but not quite the same length so you do loose a few mm in throw but it's hardly noticeable. With most car racks you loose heaps so your turning circle is way less than normal.
As you can see by the pics, the steering column shafts virtually line up but the shaft from the steering column to the rack needs to be modified slightly to fit, depending on what you use for a universal. You can also see the new mounting brackets made to mount the rack. These bolt to the std CF rack mounting plates welded to both sides of the cross member. We also added a couple of extra bolts in the verticle just to make sure. The tie rod end threads also need to be altered to fit the CF tie rod ends.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/sundownernz/vans/PowerSteering06r.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/sundownernz/vans/PowerSteering01r.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/sundownernz/vans/PowerSteering02r.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/sundownernz/vans/PowerSteering03r.jpg)
Hope this is of some help.
Cheers,
Garry
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Looking at it again that Porsche unit is very tidy. Hmmmm.
Just a quick question regarding the steel lines running along the rack. Are they original or did you have new ones made up Garry? My power steering pump is mounted on the right-hand side so it would be nice to keep the lines on the same side and although I do have plenty of room to move having a mid-mount I would prefer to keep the lines as short is possible.
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Hay Garry, guess the van doesen't look that tidy under there now. Spotted a Bedford CF Jumbo in front of me today, going by the chrome bolt on diff plate it was running a Cresta diff head, but by the power displayed on the corners at a guess it was running an 8, had the number plate TEX on it and Beach Hop on the window.;
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The lines were new to suit the position of the pump. It's no sweat to make new ones to fit where ever your pump resides. If I was doing it again I'd use the same rack and custom make the 4 mounting bushes in nolethane, but it would also be worth looking at the Transit option, simply due to availability and cost. I do like the almost CF full lock that the Porsche gives though.
Baz, it's actually cleaner underneath now than these photos show. ;D I replaced the front bushes a couple of years ago and re painted the suspension at the same time. I've also just cleaned it all in prep for the Nationals. The beauty is that once the underside is cleaned up, it's so easy to keep clean. Takes about 4-5 hours once a year to keep the whole underside like this. Piece of cake.
That plate sound familiar.
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hey Gazza, just trying to set up my A/C,P/S and Alt mounts, (trying to find billett mounts for the lot) do you have any pics and do you run AC? as well... cheers Dano
ps did the splines match?
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The lines were new to suit the position of the pump. It's no sweat to make new ones to fit where ever your pump resides. If I was doing it again I'd use the same rack and custom make the 4 mounting bushes in nolethane, but it would also be worth looking at the Transit option, simply due to availability and cost. I do like the almost CF full lock that the Porsche gives though.
Thanks Garry. I'm not too bothered about a couple of hundred dollars either way. The guy in Levin wanted roughly about $300 for his racks which doesn't sound unreasonable to me. A Transit one from Pick-A-Part will still be around the hundred dollar mark. Getting lines made up is no bother as is getting the linkages made up to attach the steering column. What I do like however is that the Porsche rack is a very tidy unit, you have used it for a few years so it has proven itself, you lose very little lock and your pictures are very comprehensive so whatever extra dollars are spent on the rack itself is saved in time having to work out how to put together the mounting brackets. I don't mind building and working things out from scratch but I see absolutely no point wasting time and money reinventing the wheel when there is already a proven and very workable solution already available.
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Hey Dano,
I'm not running an A/C unit. Not much room left in the engine compartment for that compressor and although Auckland is pretty humid, we're tough and can handle it. Haven't seen any billet mounts that would suit so made my own. The alternator brackets are the blue ones on the left side of the pics, made from alloy and painted. P/S pump is a modified stock Chev bracket to suit the room available. By splines I guess you mean on the steering shaft. If you look at the last pic you can see the stock CF shaft in blue. The bottom was machined off, where the round rubber insulator pad was, and you can see we necked it down slightly and re splined it to suit the new universal above the rack.
Hey Rogue,
Yeah this rack works well. The one thing I would do is as I said is change the 4 mounting bushed to nolethane. They need to be custom made. The std Porsche ones are rubber on a metal shell and if you have a P/S fluid leak it softens the rubber to a point where they start to disintergrate. As they fit in from the back, the rack has to come out to replace them and at $54 each it's painful. I have heard from some Porsche enthusiasts that they get rid of the mounting bushes and solid mount the rack with no problems. Could also be worth looking at.
Cheers,
Garry.
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cool thanks , that helps heaps 8)
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but as this subject pops up regularly I thought it would be best to try and keep as much of this information together as possible to make referencing it easier.
As I am about to embark on the power steering modification some questions have popped up around the positioning of the power steering racks. This question is aimed primarily at Bas NZ and SundownerNZ but if anyone else has any relevant information and comments please feel free to chime in.
This is an excerpt from the ‘National Guidelines for the Construction and Modification of Street Rods in Australia’. I have asked Shane to upload the rest of this section of the document regarding steering rack setup to the ‘Technical Documentation’ section in the ‘Downloads’ area.
The document states:
“A rack and pinion set-up is shown (in broken lines) in its normal position for an unaltered
front end. For a Holden front end with its original spindle steering arms, the rack must be
positioned as shown with the pivot points of the rack lining up exactly with the pivot points
of the front suspension at A and B.”
It goes on to say:
“the pivot points on the rack must stay on the lines A’A’ and B’B’ respectively. For
example, if the rack were to be raised 75mm from its normal position, the rack must be
widened so that the pivots remain on the lines A’A’ and B’B’.”
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/Rogue1234/Power%20Steering/RackandPinionGeometry.jpg)
This is a picture of the original Bedford steering rack in my van. The plastic boots make it hard to tell in the picture but the pivot points do roughly sit on the lines A’A’ and B’B’ shown in the above diagram.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/Rogue1234/Power%20Steering/BedfordRack.jpg)
This is a picture of the Transit power steering rack that I’ve swiped from the Bedford UK site. Many thanks to them. This picture is great as the boots are removed so you can see what I am getting at. You will notice that the pivot points in this picture do not line up with the lines A’A’ and B’B’ shown in the above diagram. They sit to the inside of these points.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/Rogue1234/Power%20Steering/TransitRack.jpg)
Here is a picture of Garry’s Porsche 928 power steering rack. It’s a little hard to tell from the angle of the picture and the plastic boots however it appears that the pivot points of this rack sit to the outside of lines A’A’ and B’B’ of the diagram above.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/sundownernz/vans/PowerSteering02r.jpg)
Now from everything I have read these setups should be a recipe for ‘bump steer’. My question is have you guys noticed anything like this driving your vans?
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Mine uses triumph 2500 rack and power steer, with a modified link, seems to work alright but not the best lock ::) seems to be in line with the diagram.. Oh and BasNZ that TEX lwb is my beddy yup it is cresta diff..
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Can't think when the last time was that I saw a Triumph 2500 on the road. Those were a bit narrower than the Bedford I think. Have you had the steering arms lengthened?
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around 65mm by the looks of things, yea they are getting pretty thin on the ground..
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Transit rack on the Camper, no bump steer, but lock a little short ( Transit Rack - Shortened). Black Beddie, yep bump steer at full lock ( VN Rack - section added) lock a little shorter than the Transit. but I can live with it as you learn to drive with this in mind, but still way better than standard Bedford.
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Hey rogue, i think the easiest power steering rack has to be the 97-98 ford transit rack. We installed ours in a day, we had to fabricate a bracket [transit bolts up @ 45deg angle] then the rack bolts to the front of that. We do have to get shorter tierod ends, and the shaft that connects the rack and column is a 99% perfect angle, so we had no trouble connecting the 2. Here are some pics, i still need to get some good pics when everything is cleaned up and fitted up again.
george.
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Hey George what is the shaft from the column to the box from or is it custom made Cheers Reid
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Mine is custom made, simple job, but have seen people use bits from other makes and models of cars that have worked well.
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Hey reid, mate we have chosen to go with a landcruiser steering column. We cut the spline bit [ 60mm long ] off the collapsable column, my mechanic is getting the spline on one end slightly machined by an engineering firm so that it mates with the transit coupling. But so far the rack has been a breeze. For those planing power steering, i am getting all the numbers, and doing up a master template for the brackets, down to every nut and bolt, i will be selling the templates for $00-00, ;D ;) Untill we are finished and engineered approved i wont be sending anything out. We found out that we should of done the V6 b4 the rack, as we needed to slightly modify with the plasma cutter. But being we had no info on what was needed, that was the only thing that went wrong, but 10mins work and it bolted on.
george.
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Thanks for that guys Im going to put power steer on the camper one day but I will grab the parts I need when i can so all the info I can get will help
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I'm still seriously leaning towards the 928 rack. I really like the idea of keeping the full steering lock give or take a few mm. I've got an EA Fairmont steering column and even sitting in the drivers seat and making brmm brmm noises it's great. Love the adjustability of it. Phil (my engineer) took the bedford linkage, cut the top off it and then made the splines on the shaft to allow the standard rack to connect up.
Here's how we did it...
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=221.0 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=221.0)
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Hey Rogue, bet Skippy's going tisk tisk tisk over your brimm brimm mate. ;D ;D ;D ;)
anyways, getting back to bizzo. Firstly I would like to say what a great read you have put up here.
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=221.0 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=221.0)
I have been going over and over it and it's links. two cups of coffee & half a pack of smokes and I'm still here. Thanks sooo much.
Is there any particular reason that you used the EA column ? as in, was it an easier fit up or personal choice. EA is the same (mechanically) through to ED if not EL and I have one of them.( EL model I mean.)
Another thought is that being ffford, I wonder if it might be an easier match up to the Transit rack & pinion. I also have one of them.(97 Transit).Great van. bought it for 8 grand & it's cost me 12. that's to keep it going.(so far).
If any one wants photo's or measurements of the rack & pinion plz ::) ask. it's sitting in the back yard, waiting for it's second heart transplant in 205,000 klm.
anyways again, thanks all,
Mark.
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Thanks for the comments ;D Whoops it was actually an EB Fairmont. This cold has my head spinning. I had access to an EB Fairmont in fantastic condition that was being wrecked so I scored the whole dash, both seats, the steering column, air conditioning and various other bits and pieces for $400. The seats were in such good condition I would have paid that for those alone. Anyway I had to give up on the dash and air con as there was no way they were going to fit into the space available however the steering column is exactly the same length as the CF one, has full adjustability and looks really good. It's certainly not an easy fit but then I never did anything because it was easy. I'm very lucky to have an engineering mate who is keen on doing just about everything and if I get stuck he gives me pointers or takes on the really tricky stuff.
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Rogue, PM Garry, I think his set up is a good one, the Transit rack is also very good, you lose very little each way and as I said you can allow for this while driving. Just thinking maybe the Transit rack would be to easy a fit for you ;D The Black van runs a VN steering coluum which is great, but a Bevel box has been used and I think this is where the problem lies, I don't have Bump steer so to speek of, but on full lock you can feel the wheels slide when turning, only when you slow down to pull into a driveway etc, this does not happen on the road driving ( thank God ) David has been for a drive in the van, he may be able to explain it better. Bas
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;) i dont "do" the "tisk tisk tisk"thing." man. . ::) so un 8) sounds like :-* :-* :-* :P
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Another rack to look at is Holden Camira, these are being used in heaps of Hot Rods as they are easy to shorten/lenghen
Regards
Petrolhead
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Hey petrol, the camira rack is a rear crossmember mounted rack, so you can not use it. The racks that you need, have to mount to the front of the beddy cross member. When i was researching mine, the first thing i looked at was holden racks, the engineer i spoke to gave me a list of about 5 racks that would fit the beddy. I put that list up on here about a year ago, if someone can find that list on the power steering thread, it may help. We used the transit rack, and it was almost a bolt in rack. having said that i have not driven mine yet so i can not vouch for it yet. But all the measurments and info my mechanic has, says that it will work a treat, we have plenty of clearences and travel, so i guess time will tell. As soon as i have tested it, and the engineer passes the mods i will post all the info the the group.
george.
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That would be here...
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1837.0 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1837.0)
Your list was...
LH Torana
VE Commodore
VS-VG falcon
Ford Territory [ late ]
Subaru Liberty [ he still had to look into some more ]
Leyland P76
Ford Transit [ 97-98 ]
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Ford Teritory has came up a fair bit in conversation around Ballarat
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Thanks rogue, yes this was the list, i spoke to a steering engineer here in bris and he gave me the list of racks that were proven to work. As far as how much modification has to be done to fit each one, he left that up to me. We went with the transit, and found that they bolt up on a 45deg angle, so we fabed a new bracket to bolt to the front of the cross member, then bolted the rack to the front of the new bracket, and surprise surprise it seems to be working out great. The best thing that reduced the work was that the shaft that goes up to meet the column, is a perfect angle,the 2 meet just nice. I got the rack for $550 and the steel plate cost about $30 and a 60mm long splined shaft to connect everything was about $80. I spoke to the mechanic an hour ago, and we will be getting some blank tierods, so when i get the price there i will post. We still need to get the rack overhauled b4 it goes in permanatly. So there you have it.
george.
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hey george what year model transit rack did you use?cheers
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Hey beddymad, the rack i used is from a 97-98 Ford Transit, not sure of the vehicle model, would have to check with my mechanic when he comes on thursday.
And warren will take your advice.
george.
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George, mine came out of a 98 2.5 litre Diesel, George I just used the Beddie tierods cut the Transit and new thread $30.00. Bas
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hey Basnz, mate i think that is what the mechanic is going to do, the engineering firm have the rods on the shelve and they are going to re-thread the rack. I will let him know just in case they are looking at something different. I recon the steering has been the easiest modification so far.
george.
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97-98 Transit is a VG model.
The rack is the same in both petrol & diesel.
They look like this.
Cheers Pioneers,
Mark.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Ford-Transit-Long-Wheel-Base-Refridgerated-Van-11-1997_W0QQitemZ160478060470QQcategoryZ35227QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D160478060470%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Ford-Transit-Long-Wheel-Base-Refridgerated-Van-11-1997_W0QQitemZ160478060470QQcategoryZ35227QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D160478060470%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54)
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Hello fellas....I have a question for someone to shed some light on...I am going to put a v6 in my van eventually and just wanted to know can i use the commodore p/s pump set up to still drive whatever rack i decide to go with? :-\ Am i right in thinking that the commodore pump just pumps the fluid to the rack?? ;D cheers....johnno
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John
You are basiclly right, the only issue I could see is if the pump does not pump enough oil for the power rack.
I think this is highly unlikely though. - just dont use a Semi's rack and you should be OK :D
Warren
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You'll be fine John. These engines are transplanted into all sorts of vehicles. I haven't read or heard about a problem yet and I've been doing a lot of reading.
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Yes Rogue, we know you have been doing a lot of reading as your Bedford has taken a back seat.. :D But I ran a VP Holden pump on the Tranist rack when it was in, no problems, Bas
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hey john, we are doing mine now, and my mechanic is using the original pump from the VP. The only thing we are going to have a problem with is the air con compressor, because that used the LHS engine mount to install. When you change the mount you loose the mounting point. We will find a new place though.
george......PS. I will see how i go tomorrow when we connect the rack up john, an i will get some detailed pics for you and post them tomorrow arvo.
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Thanks very much guys,,, you have put my mind at rest. ;D Will be very interested in those pics George when you get them..... ::)
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Hey Merlin, sometime when we're both bored, I have a BA falcon rack sitting in the shed, if you have a spare cross member we could have a look at the potential to fit it up. If people are talking about fitting the territory rack, this is very similar so it'd be good to know the pros and cons
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Yes Rogue, we know you have been doing a lot of reading as your Bedford has taken a back seat.. :D
Rowrrr ;D Actually I'm going hell bent for leather in the back of it at the moment so really it's me that's taken the back seat ;)
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Hey john, my mechanic has cancelled, and wont be here till tuesday morning, so i will get those pics for you by lunch tuesday.
george.
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No probs Georgey ;D ;D ;D
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Rogue, don't fall a sleep in there. Well at least you are doing more than I am, I take it you are not married !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D This could be the only reason you are able to do so much work on your Beddie.................
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Rogue, don't fall a sleep in there. Well at least you are doing more than I am, I take it you are not married !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D This could be the only reason you are able to do so much work on your Beddie.................
Got it in one buddy. It'll take a very special woman indeed to put up with me and my crap and it appears there aren't too many of those around. ;) :D
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Think we need a Buga / Beddie dating service on here, only women who love Bedfords, take second place in the relationship (Beddies first) and allows us at least 80% of our free time to work on them !!!!!!!!!!! :D
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Yea she is with Craig-bugga! :D
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Ha, I make sure I put Jill 1st , then shes happy for me to do whatever I want.
Trust me she walks past naked to get my attention its tools down......(or up) 8) ::) ::)
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And holding a pair of sidepipes,,that would top it off would it not Craig??? ;D ;D :o :o
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Trust me she walks past naked to get my attention its tools down......(or up) 8) ::) ::)
got any pics craig? ;D ;D ;D
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm side pipes!!!!!!!!!!
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Hee Hee :D ;D
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I say NUSSINK..... :-X
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Would you feel Jill----ted afterwards Craig ........Shit that sounded like skippy hey??? :D :D :D