BUGA Community
General Category => CF Bedford Chat => Topic started by: LS120 on October 17, 2010, 04:37:03 PM
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hi guys in need some objective out side help.... ;D ;D
i have a 202 with a new cluch,plate & bearing, has a holden 1tone 4speed box & cresta diff head in bedford diff.
my problem is that when i put the holden box in (has been checked & all ok inside) forward gears are fine but reverse wants to throw the motor out of the cab.. :o :o ???
i mean it real bad.. the whole diff shakes..
any help anyone.
when i had the bedford box in (4 speed) i had no problems at all.
thanks.
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If the diff shakes, then I wonder if the rear brakes are binding in reverse?
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Have you checked out the uni joints? I've had broken uni's do something like that.
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wants to throw the motor out of the cab.. :o :o ???
had something similar in an esky van many years ago
the bolts around the top of the bellhousing weren't done up tight.
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A stuffed engine mount can be a sneaky one to find - they look fine but change them out and the dodgy one will fall apart in your hands.
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Don't use reverse.... ;D These problems can be hard to find, What changes when the persure is but on the van in reverse? you will find the answer within this. Cluch setup maybe. as mounts you think it would be there all the time, but then the same could be said for the cluch, check the pressure plate? I know its new But .............. worth a recheck - springs etc.
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it dont matter what gear your in the clutch/pressure plate spins in the same direction i would be looking at the tailshaft either uni's ,extension housing bearing or pitch angle as you did say you changed the box it may be muonted to high/low causing binding of the uni Cheers Neil
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id think it would be more likely to be engine mount. over clutch
driving forward engine is pushed into the broken mount.
driving in reverse, engine is pulled away from mount causeing unbalances to occur all the way through the driveline.
ben
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Because reverse is a lower gear than first, the whole drive line is under less stress in reverse.
The only thing that changes is the rotational direction of the gearbox, driveshaft, diff. and wheels.
Something must be binding, and to me the obvious suspects are universal joints or brakes, unless there is a broken tooth on the reverse idler in the gearbox
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id think it would be more likely to be engine mount. over clutch
driving forward engine is pushed into the broken mount.
driving in reverse, engine is pulled away from mount causeing unbalances to occur all the way through the driveline.
ben
No I don't think so Ben
The motor still turns in the same direction.
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In reverse the load switches from one engine mount to the other. I know this for certain because up to date I have broken 6 mounts (to much throttle --350 chev). My motor tried to climb out of the engine bay when the one affecting reverse broke.
Rocket
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Ok I had something like this happen on my, dare I say it, V6 Transit, turned out to be one of the springs on the pressure plate.. and for some reason it only happed in reverse
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In reverse the load switches from one engine mount to the other. I know this for certain because up to date I have broken 6 mounts (to much throttle --350 chev). My motor tried to climb out of the engine bay when the one affecting reverse broke.
Rocket
Well, I take your word for it, and Ben's, but I still can't see that.
I'll work on it. ....LOL.
Edit.... Yep. Apologies. I can see it now. Thanks.
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ditto Rocket, had the same malfunction with a chev motor in one of my earlier beddies, showed all the same indicaters couldn't work it out till I lifted the engine cover and tryed it in reverse, motor tried to climb into the cab ..... broken engine mount >:(
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well have had it to the doctors & have found the problem............... :'(
it's the pinion shaft bearings failing & the bearings are $400 each ex-germany...
so gonig to get a ford/holden centre put in & driveshaft done as well....
for the same money as trying to fix the old cresta setup.
oh well it seems my pockets needs to bleed money at this stage...
($800)
thanks for your help guys
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:o
I recently replaced all the bearings in my Cresta diff for less than $400, ex Wellington.
I *think* the pinion bearings would be the same.
I did buy them wholesale, but could probably do so again.
We need to get together.
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$800 for new center put in and driveshaft ?
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800 sounds really cheap
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I reckon ben, the crowd up here wanted $500 just for a driveshaft to be done
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yea.. a drive shaft was about $185-195.00 chop & re-balance... the rest is to take out the onld insides & redo it with a late modle holden or ford insides (banjo style) so you can change the ratio easy. and incl labour to do it.
so $800 is not too bad... but still hurts the pocket..
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well got my 2 sets of springs back on sunday.. 1 set have been tweeked 3" and the other set 2"
so when the diff comes back i'll try the 3" ones first to see how it sits..
Oh and the cost of re-setting the springs... 1 x bottle burbon (40 oz) & 1 x carton coke (15cans)
;D ;D ;D
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always wondered... how do they re set the springs??, heat but how ??
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they used a 100T press to re-set.. this guy used to have beddys for years & even made a 4wd beddy once.. :D
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ok got the diff back & just awaiting on the shock that needed replacing...
picks in my gallery under NEW DIFF ::)
total cost for the diif job & drive shaft chop & ballance was $854.00 incl GST
the diff centre was out of a holden station wagon and has the same ratio 3.1:2 or 3.2:1 so all good
;D ;D
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well it all came together today.. shocks, new 3" higher tensioned springs & new Diff.
what a diffrent beast... somuch higher in the back.. even with 2 people in the back.
im used to seeing the springs flatish but they only moved about 10%.
i'm happy with the finished item so not going to use the 2" adjusted ones.
;D ;D ;D
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ok update on the diff upgrade.. the F&%$#@@ thing still had the shudder.. only in reverse... >:(
every thing was put on hold till after Xmas..
when putting in some grease nipples on the bottom ball joint (as they didnt have any.. only the top ones did) my mechanic frend comented on the clutch cable setup.. & i told him it was the way i had to set it up to make the cable fit...
the next day he droped by while i was on the camper roof painting it & said he had been thinking about it all night & that he thinks that is where the shudder is comming from & what to try..
well on the monday morrning i went to the local hardware & spent $15 on some plumbing parts & gess what... yep shudder was gone.. he was right on the button.. ;D
it was the clutch sheath was so tight atached to the front crossmember that when the motor reved or moved it pulled on the Clutch cable ingagiung the clutch very slightly & got worse with
the shudder.. :o
well i'm happy & now doing some internal upgrades to the Batterys , Lights & solar pannels, fridge...
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it was the clutch sheath was so tight atached to the front crossmember that when the motor reved or moved it pulled on the Clutch cable ingagiung the clutch very slightly & got worse with
the shudder.. :o
Now there's a fair dinkum sneaky one for the books- congrats on finding the fix.
I'd still check the engine mounts though if the motor is moving that much.
Garry
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yeah we checked those as well when doing the ball-joints & they are ok but i'm going to change them as they look alittle soft to me..
cheers
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850 for a diff cut is cheap ya done awesome!
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thanks Ben it was the diff cut & drive shaft for $850 ;D
even better.. with the re-set springs it sit alot higher than before.. its now bum up nose down insted of the other way around...
also took it for a run & went upto 100km @ 2,200 rpm and still had go in it..
aparently the holden commadore diff heads are the same type of teeth & spline as the beddy the only diffrance is the beddys axles are only afew mills fatter than the holden.
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what model commadore diff are you useing
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will try to find out & let ya know..
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I'm running the 3.08 VN commodore diff head in my standard van behind the V6 engine, cruises at 1750 -1900rpm @ 100k
the VN commodre come in a variety of ratios, even 4:11
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are you driving that one busy? i thought 1700 revs at 100 would be a bit low for a brick of a beddy
:0
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Yeah am away this weekend in it, is auto overdrive so cruising the straights at 1750rpm is good, hills and traffic requires a bit of foot tapping on the gas pedal to get it out of overdrive, even on (mild) hills it's only gone to about 2300rpm. have a big hill on the way home (The Bombays) so will be interesting.
Hopefully fuel gauage is not right as it shows I've used 1/4 tank to get 140 k's
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could be laboring at 1700 rpm
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On the straights its good, labours a lil coming to hills but a tap of the gas pedal drops it back into 4th
driving at 110k its at a healthier 2000rpm.
all the running gear is out of the same car, only difference is I'm running 14 inch wheels not 15's but there is only a slight different in heights of the wheels
am going to have to do something with it, cost $67 to do the 270 k's and the temp gauge sat on cold on the open road, thermostat works great in traffic and around town, but open road it runs way to cold
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wow thats pretty expensive on fuel ay..
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Hey Busy
I found the 3.45:1 improved performance and fuel economy for the v6 also stopped it kicking in and out of the locked torque converter ( was told this would burn out if I didn't) The engine seems to sit in the sweet spot with improved over taking power. In NZ with more hills than Oz you'll find you will be kicking down a lot hence not so good fuel economy. It was actually suggested that 3.55:1 was the preferred but I could only access the 3.45:1 but been happy with that.
Hope that helps
Cheers
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cheers for that. Do you tow with yours? I'm towing the custom van down to the van nats at Easter so wonder if I should change it now or later
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Noid,
Does the VN diff head fit in the Bedford housing? Or did you already have a VN housing under your Beddy.
Hippo
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3:55 is gunna be heaps better for towing busy. i would only tow in 3rd gear all the time. otherwise your likely to blow up your overdrive gear. people say even with the v8 t700 only tow in 3rd ay, not a strong enough box.
ben
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hippo, seems as thou the borg wagner only came with 3:45 then jumped to 3:89.
this post may interest you if you havnt already read it
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1966.10 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1966.10)
ben
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Mine has a borg wagner in it, I had it widened to suit the Beddy track. When it ran the 186 the ratio was 2.98:1 and worked well with the trimatic but it was to tall for the v6 and th700 with over drive. With the v6 pretty much had to run around in 3RD gear or it would jump in and out of OD all the time.
Busy I don't tow with mine but Ive carried some reasonable loads and it pulled fine. If you have time I would definitely change the ratio before your trip.
Cheers
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out of interest how much did it cost to get centres changed noid?
cheers
ben
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Ok, to through a spanner in the works, In my Beddie with the V6 / T700 auto, I have the standard diff Duel wheels model, I'ts a 4.1 and the van runs great. around town. open road, and with weight behind it, not sure if I would want to change it, but haven't been on any long trips, so that's another question........... but do have a 3.5 I will try out .
When I first got the van it reved so high in first gear before it would change, It had a loud noise in the back, thought diff. Ended up with a reo auto and all sweet, no noise in tne back anymore, no revs on changing geras.
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I phoned around today, seems 3.45:1 is a common ratio but they only had one there with noisey bearings - for $150, so will keep looking
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David, what about your old Cresta Head you had in ther, 3.7 - 3.9?
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Baz,
How many RPM at 100km in 4th please. I have a ls1 gen3 and 4l60e to put in my(soon to be picked up) LWB dual wheel Winnebago type camper
which I assume also has the 4.1 diff. Are your front wheels std 6 stud and 15".What size are the rears please. Do I see that you still have the drum brake front end?.
Cheers,
Dennis
Ok, to through a spanner in the works, In my Beddie with the V6 / T700 auto, I have the standard diff Duel wheels model, I'ts a 4.1 and the van runs great. around town. open road, and with weight behind it, not sure if I would want to change it, but haven't been on any long trips, so that's another question........... but do have a 3.5 I will try out .
When I first got the van it reved so high in first gear before it would change, It had a loud noise in the back, thought diff. Ended up with a reo auto and all sweet, no noise in tne back anymore, no revs on changing geras.
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Baz,
How many RPM at 100km in 4th please. I have a ls1 gen3 and 4l60e to put in my(soon to be picked up) LWB dual wheel Winnebago type camper
which I assume also has the 4.1 diff. Are your front wheels std 6 stud and 15".What size are the rears please. Do I see that you still have the drum brake front end?.
Cheers,
Dennis
just letting you know most of the orig diffs ive seeen in lwb are 5.2:1 :(
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David, what about your old Cresta Head you had in ther, 3.7 - 3.9?
It was a bitsa, was cresta pinion but bedford crownwheel, explained why it was so clunkly. plus I've had the commodore centre put in the bedford diff
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hi Bazz NZ
the cresta diff was a 3.7:1 or 3.45:1 from memory..
but has gone to a beddy owner in Auckland.. hes on here but cant rember his Nick..
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Hey Ben
It was a few years ago when I got it done, I removed the diff and took it into the diff specialists. They provided the new ratio and fit it up including new bearings, probably over charged at $400 but that was before I got married and had spare money :)
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nah that sounds not too bad:) i wouldnt think it would be much cheaper than that, pretty specialized..
cheers
ben
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Hi Baz, yep I did a deal with LS120 on his Cresta diff and got it shipped up to Auckland. Got Murray from McQuoid Engineering to fit it for me. Its a 3.45:1 and the good news is that it has improved the ratio by heaps. I'm still running the standard 2.3 slant behind a standard 4 speed Bedford manual box. The bad news is that the diff has a pretty bad whine which Murray reckons we can't do much about. Just old I guess. I'll probably end up dispatching the Cresta centre to Vauxhall heaven.
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hi Gordon.. try repco they have an aditive for diff & gearbox to quiten down noise it may help...
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Cheers for that. I'll give it a go.
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I remember hearing when I was young, about putting Banana Skins in the diff..?????????? Yea it's the harding gone on the crown wheel teeth, you can tell by looking at it, but yes there are aditives out there that coat this area to reduce the noise, worth a try...
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yeh bananas are only recommended when your selling the vehicle and the buyer lives far far far away:( on the other hand its probably cheaper to buy the additive these days with the price of bananas!!
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I agree, you would have to be Bananas to use Bananas these days, maybe you can make your own additive using Bananas....
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Try Moreys Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer.
Dennis